2026-04-21 NFL Draft Preview with Nate Tice (raw)

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Dan and Ty. Dan Rubenstein, it is time for an annual tradition here on Solid Verbal, sir. Welcome back. How are you?

I'm great. It is a great tradition. I love this show annually. I love the NFL Draft annually. I always have, from all different sorts of perspectives. You know, first as an NFL fan, then as a college fan, and then as somebody who covers college football, and then somebody just curious and interested about the math and the value and the process of drafting and evaluating. And so that all comes together in a delicious stew of having Nate Tice on the show. So I'm always excited. This is like our annual tradition. This is like year four or five?

Yeah. Of us doing this with Nate Tice from Yahoo Sports, from the 301 podcast. They are also doing a live show, which I watched exclusively.

Look at you.

Last year I did. I want to support the team. You know, Nate comes on. He gives us so much of his time. He does a good job. I enjoy his commentary. So we'll talk about that and give folks a little bit of a clue as to how they can tune in as well if they are ever so inclined on Thursday and Friday.

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We've got a bunch of stuff going on here, even though it is the college football offseason. Dan, are you excited for this year's draft specifically? I know sometimes people are. Look, you're rooting for a team in the NFL that's not necessarily in the most exciting place. And so, on a certain level, that is exciting because you're like, we need better players. We need to get better. And on another level, you're just like, I don't know. How are any of these guys going to help improve this situation? Do you feel more of a kinship to like hoping for Notre Dame players to do right by the program?

I do. Yeah, I mean, Notre Dame, Penn State players, of course. But, and I've said this a million times, people who listen to the show have heard me say it's a point of intersect. But it really is. It's one of those points in the football offseason where we do have this weird overlap. And I know a lot of people that listen to this show maybe don't give a rip about the NFL or the NFL Draft, but on that same note, there are plenty of people who do. And I think a lot of people who listen to us find themselves in a similar situation where either there was a player for their team that they're interested in seeing where they go and how they do at the next level, or just players maybe that weren't on their team. Interesting guys.

Jeremiah Love is probably a really good example of that. Interesting players who have kicked up a lot of dust here throughout the course of their college career, throughout the course of the pre-draft combines, and what have you. And they're just genuinely interested to see where things go, how it translates to the next level, which is why we do this show with Nate. Which is why we're going to do another show next week, a week from today, where we're going to talk through what it might mean for your fantasy football team. Because that's another thing, a weird point of overlap here.

So, yeah, we're going to go a little harder at the NFL Draft this year. Personally, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited because, A, I enjoy seeing where college guys go. That's sort of our deal here. But secondly, I root for a team that has two top 10 picks now in the New York Football Giants. So I want to see what they're going to do. Selfishly, I need to ask Nate about that at the end of the interview. But yeah, I'm going to be watching for sure.

Well, this is a huge moment for basically every school that has hopes of having a first, second, third round pick because it's something you can sell as a program. You're like, okay, we had three first-round picks. We had nine top two-round picks, whatever. And so it is a huge selling point, a marketing point for a lot of these schools. Development for coaches. I'm curious about this year and how portal NIL stuff has affected how players are evaluated. And look, we've already been through the evaluation process basically, but how they're looked at by the NFL and how they sort of fit into various teams. Because, look, we have guys not in this year's draft that we perhaps anticipated being in this year's draft, and especially a quarterback. The conversation around the number of college starts and coming back. Like, it's a really interesting time to see how players are valued and to see the opinions of NFL teams that are not just, you know, speculation during the draft process, but during the actual draft itself. So it's all really interesting to me.

Yeah, and on top of that, the NIL money.

Yeah, totally.

How it can influence calculus.

Yeah. You know, not just a player getting playing time and the systems that they found themselves in on the college level, but the calculation that needs to be made if you're a guy like a Ty Simpson, who could have come back and got a lot of money, but instead elects to go to the NFL Draft. I know Nate's got him somewhere between 40 and 50. We'll talk through where he stands on his big board and what he projects to be at the next level. But it's always one of those topics that, again, love it or hate it. Certainly, as college football people, it's worth paying attention to, and it definitely has an impact for programs because it is something they can sell and try to build up their own base.

So we'll talk through all of that and much, much more with Nate. As I said, this is not the last you will hear of the draft. We're going to talk a little bit more about it a week from today. For the time being anyway, our good friend Nate Tice from Yahoo Sports going to give us the lowdown on what to expect in the 2026 class.

All right, Dan, it is something of an annual tradition over here at The Solid Verbal. The NFL Draft is later this week. We could think of no one better to talk it through with us than our good friend from Yahoo Sports, from the 301 podcast, Mr. Nate Tice. Welcome back to the show. How are you?

I'm doing great. Great to see you guys. I was actually, when I realized when I booked my flight to cover the draft, we were doing it in New York for Yahoo, and I hadn't heard from you guys.

Oh.

And then, and then heard from you guys this weekend. One I answered, one I didn't. And then I was like, oh, let's do it. All right. So it's perfect.

No, no, it made me feel good, though. I was like, oh. It feels like we should have been done already, but here we go. We kind of ignored my email accidentally last week.

I thought my reply was perfect because I was like, hey, I check this like once every couple of weeks. So is it true?

I treat that email almost like snail mail, like old mail now. It's like, yeah, I'll get back. It takes three to five days before you're going to get my response.

Yeah, this is what happens in the modern era when you're just DMing people. So now we have a good email address and we have good contact info. So we're all good.

Exactly. We're all good.

Nate Tice, well, draft's in Pittsburgh this year. And I guess in a very Solid Verbal ice-breaking way here, I did see that you were talking about some Pittsburgh sandwich locations.

Yes. Yes. I spent two years at Pitt as a GA under Paul Chryst right after college. And I lived right on Carson Street, the south side of Pittsburgh, which is a heavy bar area. Probably not the best for me at 22 and 23, single in an apartment walking distance to work and to all those bars. Yeah, it's a lot of long days and long nights there.

But there is a deli that opened up, I think, during my time there, but I started frequenting it. I would say at least three times a week because I could walk there. It was Carson Street Deli, right? On Carson Street. But it's fantastic. And it was one of those, it was right when this was happening in the early 2010s, when, you know, that's when craft beers were becoming a thing and IPAs and everything. And that really launched me into that realm because the guy that owns the place would have like Wednesday beer tasting night, which got dangerous.

Yeah.

You know, you're not paying for a thing. And all of a sudden, he's try this one, try this one. And they're 14% IPAs and stuff like that, stouts. And you're like, oh my God. But no, the sandwiches there are phenomenal. Now they do delivery, which I envy. But no, that's the place I would always recommend for especially lunch. If you're going to the draft, that's a great spot to kind of like maybe pre-game, get a nice base before you head on over to the stadiums, stadium areas.

But also Carson Street's got another place called Bicycle Bar. That's why I always called it. I think it's called Over the Bar or Over the Handle. But that place is where I learned about a peanut butter burger or putting peanut butter on your burger. And I was again, hadn't, I was not sober, and I was like, I'll try it. It's one of my favorite things now.

But that was Pittsburgh. They put french fries on salads and peanut butter around burgers. But apparently, that's more popular nationwide than just Pittsburgh. But couple spots there in that area that I really, really like.

Beautiful. All right. Well, let's talk draft.

So, let me know if I have characterized your stance on the 2026 draft correctly when I say that your position is: this is not a generational draft class, but it is a very functional one with very real talent that is sort of distributed across multiple positions. The old sort of adage about positional value kind of goes out the window just because of the way that things stack up. You know, we'll talk through over the next however many minutes about college players, how their games translate to the NFL. But broadly speaking, is that how you would sort of define this class?

Yeah, and whenever it's defense and offensive line are kind of the main positions, that's kind of what you now, people are going, oh, their ears turn off. How many shows I've done about quarterbacks? And I'm like, guys, it's going to be quick. It's going to be, it's like, it's not a long hour and a half pod to cover some interesting day two guys.

But that's not to mean outright bad. I think that's what's been misconstrued: is that, yeah, there's not a lot of elite talent. What people say, first-round grades, what I call blue chips or blue grades. Because I'm a colors guy, and that's just how I do it: the colors of the rainbow. Is that doesn't mean that there's not talent to be found. It's actually made it really interesting because there's not so much obvious talent, that there's little consensus in this draft, which is going to lead to a lot of surprises or perceived surprises, because not only just national analysts like myself, but I would say in the league, and with teams, there are just so many guys that are role specific and scheme specific. And the best players are scheme proof. That's what usually the blue chips are, at least how I grade them.

When you get into what I call green chips and yellow chips. So, green for me is like a what people some people call a late first, early second. So, a guy I'm comfortable taking between picks 20 and 40-ish. And then after that, you know, picks between 40 and 65, et cetera, et cetera. There's a lot of that. And again, those guys can outkick their draft position all the time. Those guys will do it all the time, but usually that means they have a blemish, maybe two blemishes. Maybe they have to be in a specific scheme.

So if a guy that makes a landing spot, which matters for all these guys, but even more paramount for these guys, as opposed to like anyone could have gone like, oh, Caleb Williams is talented. Marvin Harrison Jr. is talented. Like, that's very easy to do. They can kind of fit anywhere. Well, we'll see actually with Marvin Harrison Jr.

Um, but I will say that this class, it's like I have, I'll just give an example: like on what I call day two edge rushers, there's about six guys that have about the same grade, but it's really hard for me to parse them because it's like, well, if you need a pass rusher, I like this guy. If you need a guy that's heavy-handed to stop the run, I like this guy more. But none of them have a standout, well-rounded game, or they don't have some attributes that maybe put them ahead of those other guys. But, well, long story short, that's going to lead to a lot of surprises because it's just, or I'd even say some trades because some teams are going to go, well, I got to get my guy. You might not like him, but we like him.

So it's going to lead some interest, but I don't think useful is maybe the best word I could describe the players in this draft as opposed to maybe star power. A lot of useful, good players.

How many blue chips do you find coming in this year's class versus what we saw last year, the year before, recent memory?

I have eight like true ones, or maybe seven. I would like you gunned ahead.

Okay, there it is. I can get it up to you. I could argue that. Like a guy, maybe this best example is Carnell Tate. So he is not a blue chip to me, but he's very good. But he's player 10 on my big board. Usually, that's not a guy that's very good and not a blue chip is not going to be player 10. It's just that no one else could kind of get above him when I was doing the big board.

I did a hundred shows leading up to doing my final big board and going, like, yeah, Carnell Tate, I'll have him at like 15. I'll have him at like 16. I'll have him at like 18. And then I did my big board. I got nobody else to put ahead of him. So he's 10 now. So that is, those guys just kind of get moved up. And why, like, say, a guy like Carnell Tate, I view him as more like a super high-end number two, can maybe be a pretty good number one at the NFL level, kind of what he was in college. Reggie Wayne is maybe the utmost high-end comparison for him. Reggie Wayne went pick 31, I think. You know, so that a lot of. Rueben Bain, another guy, I've been comparing to Brandon Graham. Brandon Graham went pick 14, I believe, or pick 13. Again, I'd be more comfortable taking Rueben Bain there than maybe where he will go. We'll see with some of the off-field stuff and some of the other stuff. But that's just kind of. I would say maybe eight. Eight is where I feel kind of good about where, oh yeah, any type of draft class, this is a top twelve-ish pick.

So when you draw that line between your blue chips and then subsequent tiers, I assume it's because a lot of those guys exhibit like a specific thing that is top tier, but they're not, in your words, as well-rounded as some of the other guys and, you know, check as many boxes. So, of the guys, and look, this could be day three guys, this could be day two guys, this could be lower round one. Who are guys who are just like, he does this thing better than 99% of the players he's pitted against? But he just doesn't have those other things. Like, who are the guys that do a specific thing? So, like, who are the closers, right? Who are, you know, in this year's draft where you're just like, this left guard is, you know, just nails, you know, pulling or something like that. Who are those guys?

Kayden McDonald, defensive tackle for Ohio State. That's the best plugger and that's the best defensive tackle that's just like, but actually, he's effective. Like, you don't really see nose tackles that they eat space, but then they don't make plays. If you just, without even watching Kayden McDonald from Ohio State, if you just look at his stats, you go, holy crap, you're in a lot of tackles. And you don't really see that with nose tackles. So maybe that's like his one trait. He's the most productive defensive tackle, which sounds like an arbitrary thing, but you don't really see that. And that's kind of makes him interesting to me. Like, a guy that can close that much and is just around the ball a lot, and he's young, late starter, or, you know, just one-year starter, more or less. But that is just very interesting about what that guy can end up becoming.

A guy that I would say is more maybe has turned into my guy is Eli Raridon, tight end from Notre Dame. And it's a cool tight end class because there's not really, again, not blue chips, maybe not even green chips, but a lot of very interesting late day two guys. So round three into round four. But again, we're getting into like, oh, I like this guy a little bit better than this. This guy's more receiving, yada, yada, yada. But Raridon is one of the few guys that in line it can actually block. Like, actually, and it's not the theory. A lot of guys, when I'm. You have to project tight ends, one of the hardest positions to scout, especially into the NFL. Like, usually one of my old kind of, like, dogmas of tight end scouting is just draft the biggest, longest, fastest athlete and just hope they figure it out. Right. And sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Raridon kind of checks that, but also his film, and when you watch him, he's actually like, he's a phenomenal run blocker, which you don't really see from a college tight end that's not a total stiff. Like, he's not just a glorified tackle. Like, he's actually then can run a route. He had knee injuries early in his career. He had two ACLs, and I think that's maybe what's kept him from maybe getting over the top with some teams, but I've heard other teams do like him. But so far as like that for what I was called a day two tight end, he has that skill set that not a lot of guys do. And if they do have it, it's projection. Like Colston Loveland last year when he had to block in line, it was projection coming out of Michigan. Yeah, he did it a couple of times a game, but it was more like, all right, you're young, you're long. I can maybe see you end up doing this well. Not with Raridon. It's like, boom, that's film right there. Like on film, right there, he can actually do that.

And then maybe one last guy is there's a couple guys that can do this well, but I would say maybe he's the highest end of that. Is T.J. Parker from Clemson is probably the strongest edge, maybe toughest edge. I don't know what maybe the superlative I want to give him. The heaviest hands, one of those things. However, you want to put it. The most competitive. I think he's won a lot of fans. He was very highly regarded going to the season, him and Peter Woods, his teammate, a couple of Clemson guys. But Woods has kind of gone like this with teams, kind of effort levels, wasn't very productive, kind of didn't take a step forward. While Parker, who started high, dropped lower, and now has come back up because teams watch Clemson just be so, well, maybe it was the best way to describe Clemson last year. Disappointing.

Yeah, maybe the best way I could put it. I was very high on them after doing this process last year because I was like, God, they have so many good players and their quarterback's pretty good and they got a receiver. I was like, I was buying their stock.

Every play, he's acting like it's the last play of the Super Bowl. He's setting the edge, he's doing all the dirty work, and like that kind of grows on you when you were kind of like, all right, I gotta pick between this project edge, or a guy that's going to kick some ass every snap and he's going to try hard every snap. The NFL's a grind. So, like Parker, I guess maybe maybe that was like that's a superlative I can give him, like the toughest or the most hard working or the competitive. That can usually sound like a backhanded compliment, but he actually has some athletic ability to take advantage of all that. But yeah, maybe that would be maybe the little superlative I can give him.

So, on the other end of the spectrum of guys that don't just have a single excellent thing that they can contribute to an NFL roster. I think they are the guys that are so good and even unique to the point where, oh, we're not only in the business of this player, but we are changing how we do things because this player is so versatile or is so unique, whatever.

And, you know, the Derwin James comes to mind. Last year was Nick Emmanwori with the Seahawks with a three-level player. Are there guys like that in this draft that are so different and interesting that we're like, okay, we're going to take him and we are going to commit to the bit and have to shift things to make him the best possible version of himself?

Yes, it's just that they're on defense this year, and I think that's what's screwed up. Yeah, Arvell Reese, obviously, he's the best player in this draft. If it's just whether he's edge, where he's linebacker, the NFL is a lot more diverse than I think people are making it out to be. I think even people that I see project these guys and scout these guys are going, well, he has it. If he's in a 4-3, he doesn't NFL. Like, these guys are mixing and matching fronts. They're doing so much more. That's a positive for Reese because I think he could be an impact player in both.

But there's a lot of slots and a lot of safety conversion slots, or guys that played slot in college that in the NFL, that's become such an important position. But it's kind of nice because it's just take what they did in college and just translate it to the next level.

So you got like, I wouldn't say Avion Terrell. I wouldn't like really maybe build it around him, but like Treydan Stukes from Arizona is super interesting. Former walk-on, I had him at 50, oh, Treydan Stukes, I'm sorry. I had him at 53 on my big board. He big, long guy, good athlete, and everything. His dynamic play, I would describe it from the slot, is kind of one of those where it's like, well, we want to weaponize this guy. We want to get him blitzing. We want him to get into coverage. We want him on the field all the time doing something all the time. So, Stukes might be a good one, but there's a lot of like just, I don't know how to describe it, but just interesting slots.

And like, that's become such a versatile position in the NFL. And also, it's kind of cool. You see a lot of different body types. So, you were mentioning the Jameses of the world, the Emmanworis of the world. There's more of those now than there used to be. And some of that you can get into the argument like whether how high to draft them because you can find them easier, more body types can play that position. But I would say Stukes is kind of the one guy I really took a liking to. That, like, that was probably the one I project the most.

I'm trying to think of another one.

What does that mean, by the way, that you took a liking to him, like with Stukes? Like, obviously, he's not mentioned in the top 15, but you're talking about his versatility. What did you see on tape with him where you're like, I can project that forward. If he ends up at the right place, he's going to thrive.

It's his ball recognition or play recognition. He's older too, so that's also the talk out both sides of my mouth. It's like, he plays like he has a lot of experience, because he has a lot of experience. So it's kind of one of those go back and forth. And also length and the size and everything. That's where Emmanwori is so cool because he looks like a, I mean, he really is just a will linebacker. It's just now we just call him slots. But that's the same with that, where it's just the size of everything. And he, like, why I say he kind of grew on me or won me over or whatever, is just that as I watched him, he was just putting himself in a lot, even if he didn't make a play, quote unquote. He was around the ball or making the play he should be making, like doing the assignment he should be making.

Slot is such a, because so many defenses are playing too high now, college and NFL, is that the strain points, you know, where the points come that offenses are going to attack, changes. If you're single high, it's more outside corners. It's the deep safety. Those are the pressure points, the pivot points, whatever you want to call them. Slot becomes that when you're playing too high, because that guy has to do so much. He has, it's like a helicopter. He has to go every which way, while the outside corners are like planes. You know, up, down, straight away. He has to go up, down, left, right, slide on the side, fit the run, and everything. So that's become so much more of an important position.

So it's kind of cool. Some guys have to project that way. But then some guys you see it's like, oh no, this guy is comfortable playing in space, comfortable read and reacting, because they have to do a little bit of everything. Kind of like a tight end of the defense, maybe. Keionte Scott's another good one from Miami, another day two guy that smarter, older, old, everybody's old now, older, getting into that position, but you can kind of see more of a playmaker. You know, that maybe is a good way to put it, like at that position. So, I think with Stukes, it was just like, okay, I see the vision of this because also how Arizona used him is how NFL teams will use him, where they will like earn inverted coverage and he's running backwards. There's just, yeah, just a lot of kind of, I hate using the word nuance, but it's just more like complexity, maybe is a better way to put it with that position than you would kind of perceive.

Nate, I know you are really high on like the Ohio State story going into this draft. Through the course of our conversation here, just in the first like 15 minutes, you've already mentioned three of the Ohio State guys that are on my radar. As a Giants fan, the other two that you haven't mentioned are Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs, both of whom I think would be great at Big Blue. But we can get into that a little bit later.

Just broadly speaking, Ohio State is one of these programs that has, at least in recent memory, been incredible when it comes to the NFL Draft. But this year especially, I mean, kind of on the precipice of making some history with guys or the number of guys that could go in the top 10, very much a football factory. If we stay with the defense, though, and that whole storyline, I'm curious, just as somebody who has watched the tape, as somebody who has scouted all of these guys. What did Matt Patricia bring to the Ohio State class, or at least the top of that defensive class, as they now go forward into the NFL? Did you see any sort of noticeable change in their game playing under a guy who formerly was an NFL defensive coordinator?

Yeah, how Styles and Reese were used is probably the way that Patricia, or at least highlighted them in the way that I thought was very apt or very like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Also, my mean takeaway is: I knew I should have known that these Ohio State defenders were going to be so talented because Matt Patricia was starting to get hype again. That's my mean take.

But my good positive take is that he did use them how they should be used, where they Styles and Reese in a more boring defense would be doing the same thing off the ball every single snap. Reese and Styles were on the ball on the edge of the line of scrimmage. They were playing in the A gap, you know, between the guard and center. They were off the ball. Running down 20 yards down the field with receivers. They were playing into the flat in coverage. They were blitzing.

So I will say that's what Patricia did best: highlighting that these guys can do a lot. And again, it's not, that's what's nice sometimes, too, when you're projecting guys. It's not theory. That's why I even bring up, you know, Raridon earlier. It's not theory about me or projection where I'm like, yeah, I think this guy can block. It's like, no, I've seen Sonny Styles have to play the edge. I've seen Arvell Reese run with a receiver 20 yards down the field, and you get to see his athleticism.

I would say that's what Patricia did the best. I even watching them back on tape, it was never like, or I was like, Matt, what are you doing, man? It's like, really, it's more I could talk about the offense and get into maybe the quarterback and maybe kind of have some more questions, but I did think Patricia did a good job of highlighting these skill sets. It was kind of a perfect match because he is a Belichick guy, Patricia. He still runs Belichick fronts. That's why Caleb Downs actually was able to kind of do some of the stuff over the, what I would say, centrally located positions, rover, however you want to put it, those kind of middle spots, he was able to be unlocked because Patricia had some comfort doing that, running kind of invert stuff where he's moving the safeties and corners back.

So, I do think that he used these guys because he was like, oh, I know how to use this. This is great. Get him on the edge, get them off the ball. So, I would say that maybe that's the best way to put it is that, like, Patricia's scheme was actually a great fit for a two freak linebackers and, you know, a really good safety as well.

All right, quarterback.

Um, quarterback, singular, singular quarterback.

Yeah.

All right. I already mentioned I'm a Giants fan. There was some like talk radio commentary three-quarters of the way through the season that the Giants should trade Jaxson Dart and draft Fernando Mendoza, which I almost had like a heart attack when I heard that. But it did bring into question, I think, something a lot of people, certainly Raiders fans, are probably going to be asking. How good is this guy, actually? Because we saw what he could do on the field for Indiana, obviously won a Heisman Trophy and a national championship. Clearly, he's got a personality when he is not playing, which is unique unto itself, but a very thoughtful guy, a very good interview, kind of gives TED talks. That's a separate conversation.

Relative to other quarterbacks that we have seen recently and maybe some that we will see come forward over the next couple of years just in draft terms, where does Mendoza rank? What is he good at? What does he need to improve at?

Yeah, he, if I want to give a name that, like he is very, who I have graded comp similar was C.J. Stroud. Like I had those guys kind of graded very similar.

That's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah, no, he's. I really like Mendoza. I wrote him up if anyone wants to kind of see like long, long thoughts on it. Got a, yeah, it was one of those where I was like, yeah, I can, I can get a Mendoza article. And then 4,000 words later, 20 clips later. And I was like, oh, God, sorry. It sent it to my editor late, two days late. I'm like, I'm sorry.

He, and I think this is part of it. Well, one, as I've noticed this too, as someone that's an outside, I wouldn't say an outsider to college football, but maybe NFL is my main squeeze. And then college, I very much use it or view it from a draft lens and viewing all that. I could see people just never like fighting on, buying in on Indiana this entire year, even before they played Alabama in the playoffs. I saw there were seven and a half point favorites. All the underlying stats showed Indiana was like making out to be like an all-time offense, all-the-time team. Everyone's like, yeah. Haven't played SEC. It's like, guys, I don't think you guys are realizing what this Indiana team is and what Mendoza is.

But why I'm saying all that is that sometimes watching him with all the RPOs and everything, that you can just kind of paint a picture. Oh, he's boring. He's not very athletic. He's not very dynamic. But really, that's a positive to his game. He's so on time and he's so accurate that not a lot goes astray. And I think that kind of boringness kind of like lulls people to sleep a little bit.

But on top of it, even before I get kind of his playstyles, traits-wise, he's 6'5", 235. That's those plus plus. That's exactly what you want. And I actually think I would even, I had been saying like always the underrated athlete, typical kind of verbiage, sneaky athlete. I do think he's actually a good athlete. Like he actually watching him on film, because again, film doesn't lie. It's nice about film too, is you kind of the angle is always consistent. So you kind of start knowing speeds and seeing angles that defenses or defenders are taking. He's got a lot more juice than I think people are realizing as a runner. He's not a sexy runner. He's not going to juke a guy, but he can get first downs. He's not a slouch. Like, you know, Stroud was a good athlete too. He just didn't want to scramble. Same with Mendoza. He prefers to win from the pocket.

But I think his accuracy, his ball placement, his timing are very good already. And he doesn't make the same mistake twice, which is a big thing for me. If he makes a mistake and really didn't make a ton of mistakes on film, like there was only a couple this year where I was like, what are you doing there? You know, I thought, of course, even at Cal, that's why I became a fan of him. At Cal was just like watching him on film. I'm like, okay, that play didn't go right, but you didn't, like, you didn't make a bad play worse. And that's a big thing for quarterback play.

But even get outside the RPO stuff, all that stuff, you watch him on third down, you watch him in the red zone, you watch him in two-minute. He's very advanced, and he is running real concepts, and when I say real concepts, a little bit more complicated, straight drop back, multiple reads, have to read, actually read the coverage. And he's just consistently finding guys, and the ball is coming out on time, and he's not making a bad play. And that's like, that's, that's NFL quarterback play.

And I think his arm is good. It's not going to be an elite arm, but it's good. It's not, it's definitely not, oh, kind of good. It's, it's firmly on the good scale. If you're a baseball fan, it's like a 50 arm, you know, out on the 40 to 80 or 20 to 80 scale. You know, that's kind of what he's at.

And I do think, though, it's just, it's that advanced mental side, the toughness too, which I think is why his teammates love him because he's a freaking warrior out there. And I think the LinkedIn personality and the kicker face mask kind of people don't buy into that, but man, this guy takes hits and he's bouncing back right back up. And it's, that's, it's infectious when you watch him.

So, um, the guy I've compared him to, the highest end comparison is Matt Ryan, who I think is a pretty, they're built the same, kind of the same arm threshold. Matt was a much better athlete than people remembered. They're both good throwers on the move. And I think some of the weaknesses that Mendoza had at Cal, which I attributed to some of the circumstances he was playing with, the lack of talent around him, but he took a lot of sacks at Cal. He already improved on that at Indiana. And it really shows, again, he doesn't make the same mistake twice because he's such a hard worker. And I know that's the LinkedIn stuff, ha ha ha. That's what you want your NFL starting franchise quarterback to be.

Well, if you're building around a guy, right? You don't want someone who's going to slouch.

No, and that's what that's, I know. People at the end of the season were like, oh, you didn't tell me about his personality. I'm like, what's the issue? Like, this is what you want. I don't want my guy out. Like, and I, and I've heard through the grapevine that it's like, no, it's very authentic. Like, and that's what the locker room knows with phonies, like, like that. He's not phony, it's just that he's goofy.

I'm curious what those rooms are going to be like with him and Kirk Cousins in the same quarterback.

Oh, man. I know. Oh, my goodness. So just give me a chance. I texted a guy that I know for the Raiders. This is my last kind of thought on it. And I said, I interviewed Mendoza a couple weeks ago. And I go, I interviewed your guy. And he goes, or I interviewed your business manager. And he goes, Cousins? I go, no, no, no. I was talking about Fernando. But yeah, okay, all right. Yeah. But yeah, okay, I guess that's that works too.

All right. But no, I, it's, he really, I liked him a lot. And then, whenever I love doing these studies in the offseason, these deep dives, these 3,000, 4,000-word articles, because it was like, man, I actually might, and I was the high guy at him. I actually might have been underrating him a little bit. Again, I don't think he's that upper echelon. He's not a Caleb. I had Drake Maye as one of these guys. He's not an Andrew Luck, but that next tier of guys that could be a quarterback 6 to 12 every single year, like a Dak Prescott every single year, how Stafford kind of can be. He's kind of the top of that tier. But though, that kind of Jordan Love is in that tier to me. He can firmly be that for his whole career, which is you can win a Super Bowl with that.

I'll take that, yeah.

Yeah, I really like Mendoza, man. It's kind of funny. People have just kept kept trying to kind of find, you know, you get your nits picked throughout this process. But man, it's just ones I just don't. I don't follow. I don't track as much as other people are kind of making them out to be.

He's also, and I mean, you can speak to this, I'm sure, like the prototypical modern quarterback in that he's in a disadvantaged situation. He's able to transfer to a more advantaged situation. So you can see what he's like, as you mentioned, like taking too many sacks and he's in dirty pockets, as it were, at Cal. And then now he's at Indiana, and not only do you have tape with him like in a more specific system, but you have tape in a deep playoff. So you have tape against Oregon twice, Ohio State, Miami. Like you have all of these data that you wouldn't necessarily have on a quarterback 10 years ago.

So, in your mind, and I suppose this is a leading question: like, is he the sort of antidote to like, well, we think Anthony Richardson might be interesting because he's super athletic, but we don't have tape? We think J.J. McCarthy will be good because he played under an NFL quarterback and he played, but we didn't really see like a complicated passing situation with him, but we hope it will work out. You almost have a lot more to go on with Mendoza.

Yeah, it helped too that he started early at Cal, which is a feather in his cap. You know, it's that's sometimes when a guy, you know, see two guys in this class, like Ty Simpson. It's like, oh, well, he was a good teammate and he sat behind Jalen Milroe. Well, why couldn't he beat him out? That's kind of like where that's, you know, if you want to get negative on it, it's like, well, why didn't he beat him out? Mendoza was starting right away. They were finding ways to put him on the field at Cal.

So, I'm, yeah, I agree with that. I had somebody ask me that the other day. They're like, do you hate these guys transferring? I'm like, there's some times I do where I wish they declared or something. But like a guy like Mendoza, if he stayed at Cal, they get, they improved circumstances this year. It wasn't great, but better. He's a third round pick probably. You know, like it's like he bought it, but that it kind of speaks like you're saying. So, yeah, it is kind of leading question, I guess. I agree.

Is that, yeah, it's great that I got to see, my Cal Annoying just said, or I'm sorry, to Indiana. But not only just Indiana, just tough circumstances. Second half against Ohio State, the Penn State game, Iowa game. I can go on and on and on. He played the, on FEI, I think Indiana had the fourth toughest schedule in college this year. So of course they play in the playoffs. That's going to juice it up. Helps.

Yeah.

But yeah, but I got to see road games at Eugene. You know, at Cal, it's like, you know, now they're at ACC, you know, that's a little different than playing at Wake. Right. You know, like it just is. And it not that I am not as big into, I do weigh it, but maybe not as much. I'm going like, well, this guy's been in big games. He can understand it. Because sometimes people say that, and the guy sucked. And it's like, just because he played, and it doesn't matter. Mendoza like was the moment. Like he rose to every moment. Might not have been always.

I thought the Ohio State game, which they only scored X amount of points, not 13 points. Right. But on film, so much better than when you watch on TV because he gets his ass kicked in the first quarter. I mean, absolutely destroyed by Caden Curry, who I do like. Uh, I mean, Caden Curry was out to kill him, like, it was absolutely freaking spearing him, tombstoning him, whatever you want to say. And he keeps coming up, and then in the second half, they have a third and two, and he throws a deep ball to Charlie Becker. Number eight, who's a good player.

Yeah.

And that play has won me over more than any other throw. And I tweeted about it, whatever. If anyone listening to this wants to find you, just look up like third and two from Nate underscore Tice or something. I used an ampersand. But it's on that third and two. There's a crosser in front of them. They're losing. It's in the third quarter. He could easily just hit the tight end on the first down. And like every other pass play that game, it would have been a catch. Smoked, barely get the first, maybe been a drop if he gets hit too hard. He takes the hard answer, but it's the proper answer. It's the proper difficult answer. It was not him just going rogue. I got to try something. Unpin the grenade.

It was exactly what the read was supposed to be. He's under pressure. It's third and two. They're down in the Big Ten Championship in the second half. And he's taking the hard answer and finding it and putting the ball on the money as he's getting hit. And it's like those things are like, that's real like F-ing NFL play. Like, that is that, those, that is finding those aggressive answers.

So, kind of getting to your answer is that, like, I wouldn't have seen that if you played at Cal. And they went, who, and I like JKS, their freshman. But, you know, would they go this year, six and seven? If I would be a borderline bowl team, yeah. Yeah. But if they're, that's the thing, is like he's not playing in those types of situations. So, yeah, yeah. Long-winded way to say I agree.

Piggybacking, though, is that, because this, I think, has been the loudest year in terms of like how many times has this guy started games, right? And like, that's the Ty Simpson conversation. It's even the Dante Moore conversation, right? That he is, a this is his first year as a full-time starter all season long. And I assume you are in support of Dante Moore coming back and getting more under his belt moving forward. Is that what happens between 20 and 35 starts, right? That you are able to unlock those hard answers that you are more mature and you are better in the film room and you just have those sort of mental reps to say, like, okay, I have this game. I'm a successful college quarterback. But have I reached my ceiling in terms of what I could be? Is that the big difference that you see between those year and a half starters and three-year starters?

I mentioned one of Mendoza's best qualities is how he never makes the same mistake twice. And so, to answer your question, that it does benefit having more starts because they, Mendoza got to make a mistake as a freshman or as a sophomore when no one was watching and no one was yelling at him about gambling and Heisman odds and all and costing his team the national championship aspirations and the greatest team that they've ever had in their con or in their organization history. Organization. Program history. Yeah.

But it's no, so like that is where more starts helps is how you come back from a mistake, how also spring ball into second camp goes as well as the guy. That matters as well because of just how you act and interact with teammates, how you learn from mistakes like already mentioned, what layers you add to your offense, especially if you're working with the same play caller. Because Moore is, OC left, right? So that's going to be an interesting kind of thing, too. It's not like he's going right back into the same offense. Moore was interesting because it's an internal promotion. So it's, I think it's similar. Yeah.

So, okay, that's a pretty good answer. A pretty good version of that, too. Yeah. That is something, too, is that spring ball as the guy after you've started already. You can use your own. It's also easier to learn something when you're making the mistake, you know, as opposed to watching film with somebody else and then going, like, okay, now you do it. Like, it just, it's a human element thing.

So, okay, I watched a spring ball. Hey, remember against Iowa, you did this. Okay, hey, we now did this new play off of that. So we can do this when we're in the red zone next time. Okay, cool. Now it's again, it's not on a whiteboard. I have a rep at that. And we're humans and we need those reps. We need them. And some guys only need one. I was not that. I need 12, you know. But that's what it does help to have those starts under there. It's just coming back from mistakes. It's just learning what a defense can do in the advanced play, especially once you get to the NFL. But that's just really what it is. It's just those reps and time on task. So, yeah, it does matter.

Moore was interesting to me because I had him kind of, okay, I had Mendoza kind of top, and then I had Moore, if Moore like declared, he probably would have ended up like in my teens on my big board. And that's me being pretty high. He was a great example of that, where I thought some of his blemishes started to show up as the season went along, and you could tell which plays he hadn't had time on task with. So again, having a full offseason to go, like, okay, now I can add, now I knew the first baseline of plays. Now I can learn the next grouping of plays and be comfortable with them. There's a difference between just doing it once and being comfortable. So Moore throughout the year, I could start telling, like, he started checking down a little too quickly. He started like pressure. He would just go, oh, where's the safe answer? Plays that he was comfortable with, four verts, like the Rutgers game is the one that comes to mind. Oh, I'm launching it. Like, he was, that's, those are the ones he was pushing it. But if he ran a different play, you can kind of see him just be a little more robotic and hesitant.

So, money-wise, too, pick 22, makes, I think in the draft, would make at least $4 million a year. I think 3.8. And that's the first year contract. And that's why Moore was interesting to me because monetarily, economically, actually, it would make more sense if you think you're going to be a top 20 pick, you would make more money over four years, potentially five, if they pick up the option, or are you taking your one-year guaranteed money? So, I actually, and people asked me what I would do. I was like, well, I've never had to be in this position, but I think I would take the guaranteed four-year deal, even if in a football sense I want him to play another year in college, too. Right. Get more reps. I know, but I thought that was more of an interesting conversation. Maybe it was just me trying to drum up interest for this quarterback class, but that was me just like, I thought that was kind of an interesting kind of thing. Like, if you're a top 20 pick, you're going to make more money in four years. You're going to make the same money you make this year, but times four. So, I don't know because you can't guarantee what's going to happen next year. I think next year's class is a little bit better, too, quarterback-wise.

Well, and it sort of brings up, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to talk about Ty Simpson next. Because as you know, there was a lot of interest in Ty Simpson or other programs, let's say Alabama, I guess, included in those of schools that wanted Ty Simpson, thought he could come back and be really serviceable and maybe even better in 2026.

You have him sort of grouped in that class with Garrett Nussmeier. Like in the forty to fifty-ish range of quarterbacks who both are sort of described as guys, maybe who could pop in the right situation, right? Garrett Nussmeier, very inconsistent last year. Obviously, very tumultuous. Go of things at LSU, whereas at Alabama, Ty Simpson, they couldn't run the ball. So it was all on the arm of Ty Simpson until down the stretch, they had some diminishing returns there. How do you kind of grade out what you saw on tape from Nussmeier and Simpson last season in the SEC? Sort of like a tale of two cities in a sense, but how do you kind of take that and translate it to what it means at the next level?

Yeah, these two have been kind of funny to scout side by side because even just narratively, they have so much in common. You know, sat behind other guys, they're coaches' kids. They're not the biggest either. Both faced injuries this year as they got the crap beat out of them.

Nussmeier, does he have his 2024 season always in my mind because I just really liked what I saw in a lot of those games? Ole Miss game. I really want to say the A&M game, but I could be wrong there. But Ole Miss game is the one that at least stands out to me. But that was, so going through this year, Nuss was my, I think, quarterback three going into the season. I'm super high on Sellers still. I'm still buying stock of LaNorris Sellers. But Nuss, for me, because this whole year from LSU was just hell. You know, I mean, just everything involved with it. He had no talent around him, or lesser talent than you would expect at LSU. The tight end's a freak. But the kind of lesser talent around him. So a lot of times it's all on him to, and he's just throwing, he has to throw a quick game, he has to throw a third down down the field, and guys aren't making plays, they're dropping, everything has to be perfect.

Simpson had that kind of moments too, surprisingly, even though he has some cool receivers. I thought too is that Simpson, both of these guys really pushed the ball. You can tell they're coaches' kids. They both have got good pocket movement. They both have pretty good timing. And when I say timing too, it's like this is a huge thing in the NFL is that one, two, the drop back of the quarterback is tied into the routes. So if a guy takes an extra hitch, he's late, or unless he has a good arm and can make up for that. So that's why going one, two, three, hitch, ball out, or one, two, three, ball out, et cetera, et cetera, matters so much because the NFL, that's when they're talking about windows. It's just, it's more time. It's more the window of time as opposed to even just the window you're throwing it to.

So, both of these guys, a plus to them is that they already have kind of proper timing in their heads, but also the negative is they already have that. So, what else am I teaching them? What else can I add to them? Because they don't have outstanding traits. They both have arms that I really more comfortably say above average. But can touch good and kind of good pockets and everything. I think Nussmeier throws a beautiful deep ball. It kind of shocks me sometimes. He's not the biggest guy. He's kind of tiny. He's kind of pudgy. He's kind of a weird build.

But Simpson too, Simpson will layer and really fire some throws out there. But again, like size really does matter. And I think in the NFL level, is that we think a lot of people think, oh, okay, well, of course, you need a big DE. Of course, you need a fast and big receiver. Oh, quarterback's all about moxie. Well, physical traits really do matter. And I wish, I wish I wasn't as cut and dry as that, but it really does. And guys under 210 and especially under 205, there's not a long history of those guys succeeding, unless they're like Lamar Jackson and have a freak athleticism to them.

I've done studies on guys under 205. I know it's arbitrary. 205 pounds. And since the new millennium, there's only been three successful quarterbacks that weighed under 205, and it's Kirk Cousins, who both of these guys could be at Kirk Cousins. That might be their upside. It's Kirk Cousins, Jeff Garcia, Lamar Jackson, and that's basically Aaron Brooks, if you want to throw him in there. Sure. It's not a long history. And if you go back even to the merger, it's like Dan Fouts and like Joe Montana. And it's like, oh, those are big names. Oh, and Doug Flutie. It's like, oh, those are big names. It's like, yeah, they're outliers. That's why we remember them. It's because they were the outliers.

And so I know it sounds very cut and dry and very much like, well, the guy could be 206. It's more just to paint a picture about just their size and just the potential durability issues. And I wouldn't have as much concerns if they already face durability issues in college, and it's only bigger, faster, and harder in the NFL.

They do a lot of the little things right. They push the ball, which is huge. They are good enough athletes. Simpson's a better athlete, but just the size and some of the durability stuff, I only can get so high with that kind of archetype. And then the Simpson's kind of lack of starts. I've seen, you saw two seasons this game. Some of his best throws are some of the best throws you see, but then there's a lot of games in the second half of the year where some sprays were showing up. So that kind of made him a little more riskier to me.

Then mentioned players that will or could force teams to sort of commit to the bit. One guy we have not mentioned is Jeremiah Love. So also, as somebody who roots on Notre Dame.

Yeah, Ty, we already used your Eli Raridon space for Notre Dame talks. I bet you my Raridon before Jeremiah Love.

Yeah, yeah, exactly right. As soon as you said day two or day three, I was like, oh, crack the knuckles. I was like, yeah, here we go. Here we go.

Let's talk about Arvell Reese's speed or anything like that.

No, no, no. Let's talk about blocking from a wide tight end.

Let's do it.

So, like, Jeremiah Love's interesting, obviously. Like Heisman contender, was crazy good at Notre Dame. Anyone who watched Notre Dame or watched Jeremiah Love for any extended period of time knew that he was very good. What has surprised me though, admittedly, you guys on the NFL side talk about him like he's a freaking Avenger. Truly. Some people are going kind of crazy.

Yeah, and maybe it's, maybe I just didn't have that perspective because even though there were game-breaking highlights, he was sort of lightly used. As compared to maybe some of his peers in the running back room around college football guys who are going to the next level. I like, has that surprised you too? Or is it just me? Maybe I was too close to it. I don't know. He's very good. I'm excited to see what he looks like at the next level. It just seems like the adjectives have grown by an order of magnitude each time I read something about Jeremiah Love.

I think one thing is that I've noticed if a running back splits out and runs like a real route and catches the ball, oh my God, everyone just goes, this guy's not a running back. He's a weapon, right? He's a receiver and a runner. And so that's where the new stuff comes in. No, I'm right there with you. I really like him. And people have asked me, where would you stack him up? Maybe the top end running backs that have been drafted.

So I would say I've officially been scouting since 2014, 2013. And Zeke is my number one. Like, he's not a Zeke. Zeke was like the perfect running back to me. He really was. Ezekiel Elliott. Size, pass protection, running between the tackles, speed to hit the home runs, receiving ability, timing, everything. Number two to me was actually Bijan Robinson. Because I just, again, same thing. I thought he did everything so well, the timing and everything. Also, didn't have a lot of hits on him going into the NFL, which I like because he had Roshaun Johnson there. But he had to do it all, receiving pass protection. That's the stuff I kind of go for, along with game-breaking ability. Gurley was probably those three were probably the special ones to me. Saquon would probably be fourth. And then we're getting into the next tier.

So, those guys to me are like, I've mentioned blue chips. I have a thing called purple chips, which, if you've been in casino, that's a $500 chip. That's the like, those are the no-brainer, like, okay, yeah, like, okay.

He's the next tier. He is more to me what Jahmyr Gibbs was. He is more to me even what Ashton Jeanty was last year. Where there's some, it's not perfect. There's a couple of things I would nitpick. I think Love runs a little upright, which is a little scary to me because that leads to hits, especially in the NFL. But I will say, he's got some great vision and he could take it to the house. And a lot of teams are going to go for that. And I also have receiving ability. He's supposed to be a great kid, which also helps too. I hate saying great kid, but I can say it now.

We're men of a certain age, Nate.

I'm getting older and older. I actually can say it now because these guys are 15.

It's great for all of us.

Oh, but I agree with you where I have not, I don't consider him one of the top, top, top, top guys or top running backs that I've watched in a decade plus, but a very good one because he can do the other things at the running back position, which is, you know, actually has vision, actually can project as a pass protector, and also can receive the ball and doesn't have a lot of tread on his tires or a lot of wear on them. So I think that's kind of the appeal of him.

I agree with you, though. Some people are out over their skis with him, and it's really funny. I think it's never running back. We just did this with Jeanty last year where all these running back discourse, and I'm like, we just did this like 11 months ago, guys. Like, what?

Yeah, the word generational keeps happening.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Like, I swear, goldfish memories.

I like Jeremiah Love a lot. I am excited to see him play. And if he's half as good in the NFL as he appeared to be in college, I mean, who wouldn't want that? You would take that in a millisecond. I am just reacting to the language and how it feels like that has escalated over the last three months.

Yeah, there's an I am Spartacus kind of thing that happens where it's like, oh, I like him. I like like him. I love him. I think he's the greatest thing I've ever watched in my entire life. Like, that kind of happens throughout the process where kinds of one, the takes get one-upped on each other. And I think that's kind of happened him to a little bit.

I love watching him with Riley Leonard, though. Riley Leonard was my guy. I'm like the only Riley Leonard.

You're still a believer.

Yeah. I'm still a believer. Hey, he looked good with the Colts in a game and a half.

He did.

Let me pull on that thread, Nate. Thousands of us.

We ask you about this every year. You know, the draft industrial complex is set up in a way, love it or hate it, where you do kind of either, whether it's a voluntary thing or not, you kind of have to differentiate yourself. What is the Nate Tice take or group of takes this year that sort of, in your eyes, sets you apart from some of your peers in the industry and how they're viewing this class, the flag that he's planting, yeah.

Yeah, the flag's of planting everywhere. I loved offensive line class, and I think that other people are just trying to like, I keep, you know, receivers always try to get, people love receivers, and those always get steamed. Everyone just to talk about receivers. You know, quarterbacks are always top. I'd say receivers is too. And I'm seeing, like, you know, receivers might be the most drafted position the first round. It's like, there might be 10 offensive linemen in the first round. And I've been kind of beating that drum over and over, and I think I'm going to be proven right.

But I would say I've steamed up a lot of guys in this offensive line class. Monroe Freeling from Georgia, one of the most improved players I've ever scouted. I watched him midseason last year and last year, 2025, midseason, October, and I was like, okay, third, fourth rounder. I'll deal with you in a year. Then watch the last two months and also I'm like, oh my God, this guy might be a top five pick. It's uh, you know, but awesome. But him, yeah, Max, uh, uh, Iheanachor from Arizona State, really cool story. I have him at 11 on my big board. The guy just learned how to play football five years ago. I'm super high on him. So I would say the O-line steam is I'm a little different with.

I would say some certain guys, Denzel Boston, receiver from Washington. I'm one of the higher player or higher graders of him. I think I might be the highest. I really like him. I just don't know. You see this type of guy's work in the NFL because he has the size and fluidity. He's not, you know, David Boston's son, sadly enough. I was so excited when I first started scouting him. I was like, oh my God, David Boston's son. And look how big he is. Of course, that's David. Oh, it's not David Boston's son. I'm sorry. But, Denzel Boston's a guy I'm definitely higher on than a lot of other people.

Caleb Lomu would be another guy, offensive tackle from Utah. I'm a little higher on than other people. I'm trying to think some maybe other guys I maybe have steamed a little bit higher. It's a little bit down the listers. Guys like Eli Raridon actually was a guy that I'm definitely, definitely higher. I have him at 47 on my big board. And I looked at consensus rankings after I did all this to just kind of see where I'm at. It's like me 47, a dot, and then just a huge pipe. Nobody. And then the next one's at like 96. So Eli Raridon is definitely a guy I'm higher on than a lot of other people.

Keyron Crawford from Auburn is another guy I'm pretty high on. He's an edge rusher. Um, Keldric Faulk, his teammate, I'm also higher on. That defense actually on front, uh, was it Durkin? Was it DC? Was it D.J. Durkin?

Yes, D.J. Durkin.

It's like, I get why they did a lot of things, but also it's very annoying to grade guys because they like do everything. And it's like, no, just you have freaks up front. Just let them go. Just pull the boat back and just let them go. Like, I want to see this, but so the Auburn guys and maybe other guys.

And then, maybe the last one I'll throw out here is De'Zhaun Stribling, receiver from Ole Miss. I'm super high on it. I have him 52 on my big board. You asked me maybe what one thing or a trait that's maybe a standout thing. Stribling might be the best blocking receiver in this draft class. So maybe that's like another one I could throw out there. But yeah, he, he won me over, and one of those guys that I just truly enjoyed watching. Receivers is just kind of taking and leave it for me. It's like I kind of know what I like, I kind of know what works, or I try to at least do the best I can. And he's the guy I watched an extra game of because I enjoyed watching him play so much. And then maybe Bryce Lance, another receiver from North Dakota State. Trey Lance's brother. Little brother, and he's a little older, but he's a freak athlete. Really liked him.

So there's a couple of names that kind of come to mind. I like Jonah Coleman from Washington as well, the running back. Those kind of guys, those kind of steady Eddie, what I call doubles hitters. Right. Because he ain't hitting the home run. The doubles hitters, I really kind of fall for those guys every year. So he's another guy that I'm a little bit more steamed up.

But yeah. Offensive line class, some cool receivers on day two. I think maybe the best way I could put it.

So I'm glad you talked about offensive line because a lot of these guys you're projecting out because you can't sort of gauge specific scenarios for receivers, right? If they're in a weird system, if the quarterback situation is all over the place, if the coordinator situation, whatever. There is something you can really sort of sink your teeth into, I think, and that's if you like an offensive tackle and you like an edge rusher and you get to see them play against each other. That seems like it could be very instructive.

So, when you, because you're obviously a big tape, don't lie guy, when you pop on the one-on-ones that you feel like are the most instructive. Whether it's, I'm trying to think of like, especially in the first round, like if Spencer Fano went against David Bailey or something like that. And they did. And they did. So, what are those that were the most instructive bits of tape where you're like, okay, I like this guy, I like this guy, what happened?

Yeah, great one. Zion Young from Mizzou and Kadyn Proctor from Alabama. Those two went against each other because it's heavy on heavy. It's a glass eater versus just a guy that's built like a globe. And so those two going against each other was very fun. And actually, I would say Zion came out a little bit ahead in my head for how I assessed it because it's power versus power, and he outpowered him. And that's significant once the guy's 360 pounds.

Um, uh, the uh, Max, uh, Iheanachor from Arizona State, they played 'cause Arizona State and Texas Tech are in the same conference now. They played Texas Tech, and he got a lot of steam at the Senior Bowl. And I include myself here, where I was like, I gotta watch more tape on you. And I watched them against Texas Tech because that's, with two, not only just with David Bailey, they got another guy, Romello Height, who's going to be like a round three guy. Lee Hunter, the defensive tackle, will be a day two guy. And he shut him down the entire game. Didn't have one bad snap with no leakiness whatsoever. And I'm like, this guy's supposed to be a project. And he just locked down a top five pick in true pass sets. Yeah, like stock way up. So, like, he that did a lot. Like, that's one very specific one. That very specific game, that very specific matchup did a lot, at least to me. To kind of boom, uh, boost him up.

Proctor also went against R. Mason Thomas from Oklahoma. That was another one that was kind of in R. Mason Thomas' speed, speed, speed. So speed versus power. That was kind of a very fun one to kind of check out.

Really, just quarterback against good defense. Like that, that really goes a long way. Yeah, like, yeah, like seeing Mendoza figure out Oregon's defense and figure out, oh, I can just attack these corners. Watching him against Ohio State in the second half, him starting to push the ball a little more and going, I got to be a little riskier than what I was. It only was a couple of drives. But that's a really fun one.

Would you see, okay, this quarterback really leans on RPOs. How does he do it when he has to go third and 10 a bunch of times? And that you can kind of up, you can see the positives and maybe the negatives of that guy when you kind of just maybe see more of a mental matchup.

D'Angelo Ponds, Indiana corner speaking, Indiana. Smaller, I have him at 42 on my big board. He's awesome. Even though it, it's a listening to my heart over my head. Maybe being around Antoine Winfield Sr. and when I was a kid really helped me out because I think Ponds and Winfield Sr. have a lot in common. Going watching him against Ohio State or watching him go against some big burly receivers. I think he went against Washington and went against Boston. Last year.

And so it's cool to see him go against maybe bigger talented receivers and hold his own and make plays and kind of do some cool stuff. So those are a couple of the matchups that at least come to mind right now.

When you look at the prospects, and I know you attack this much more from a like, who are these guys? How do I project them forward? But I'm sure there's part of your brain that says, okay, this is how the Vikings play on defense. This is how the Rams play on offense, right? There's like a very specific way, you know, Ben Johnson likes to attack teams. Who are the players when you are looking at this? You're like, okay, I see what kind of player they could be if they end up in this specific kind of place, right? That, like, not necessarily like, oh, this is a fit for this team, but you're like, oh, the prototypes are kind of taking shape.

Yeah. Denzel Boston, again, going if he went with the Rams, that one would make a ton of, with the Sean McVay. That would make a ton of sense to me, and I think more sense than people are giving it credit to right now. Um, just because they like those big receivers, guys, that maybe aren't the top end speed guys, but are more just kind of fluid. Like Puka Nacua ran almost a 4-6 and he led the, or was up there in the NFL with explosive plays last year. They like good blockers. They like versatile guys. And like Boston really checks a lot of those boxes. He returned punts at 6'4", 215. Like, I'm not going to wave that away, right? That is a data point I am going to use. Like, that is something that is significant. That's one that's really.

Billy comes to mind to me. Spencer Fano. You mentioned him from Utah. Actually, that was another matchup. The Utah tackles against the Texas Tech edges was another one. Their quarterback made it tougher than Dampier, who actually I like more at New Mexico than at Utah. But yeah, I was very high on Utah this year because I knew they had some awesome tackles, and he got dropped in. I'm like, he's not going to get sacked this whole year. And I was a little more frustrated than I thought I would be watching Utah. Yeah.

But like Spencer Fano with the Ravens is a one I like in the sense that I think he's best at guard. But also, he's really athletic, really good on the move, and that's an offensive system that I think would be perfect with them with their new offensive coordinator, Declan Doyle. I think they're going to be more zone heavy again. Derrick Henry's zone heavy running back, which I think that screws people up when they see Derrick Henry so big, but and people think of zone runs as finesse. But everyone just runs zone. But he's actually like better on zone than he is on like power runs. It's kind of like a weird kind of thing with him. But no, Spencer Fano, it would be that's one fit I've, I kind of just keep coming back to when I do these, do my mock drafts and everything. There's others, but again, like receiver-wise, it's just like I could go on all day.

Oh, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren. He's a safety from Toledo. I actually like him a lot with if he went to the Bills in the 20s. Bills fans keep getting mad at me when I give him a safety and not a receiver, but I just keep going, I don't know. Jim Leonhard. He likes these types of guys. He could be the sail high guy. He can come down. So, like, that's another one that's kind of a weird kind of pairing. I don't think a lot of people have that one, but that's one that I keep coming back to as well: McNeil-Warren with either the Bears or the Bills in the twenties because of how their defensive systems are.

Do you see overlap between college and NFL systems in any sort of significant way? And I know like, you know, the Seahawks are doing interesting things up front with their pass rush. And I know a lot of college teams are going to more like three high type looks on defense. Where do you see, and it's sort of a vice versa thing, like, where do you see college affecting where NFL teams are going? And where do you see what NFL teams are doing that college teams start adopting if they can with limited practice time?

Well, even start with college. Now they got the headsets. So that's right. I see way more complicated offensive stuff happening because they can actually get the terminology out there. And actually kind of going a little slower because teams are huddling a little bit more. Which I, that's just something offhand I've kind of noticed. And actually, it was something I hadn't even really considered when I watched quarterbacks. I was like, oh, actually, they have more experience. No, can I begin?

That's really interesting, Nate. That's a really interesting observation.

It was kind of just something I just kind of had in, it really didn't click for me until this month, actually. And I wish I was on that earlier with the headset stuff.

I would say more defensive carryover now. You see more three-down fronts. Iowa State is so funky to watch. I watched their nose tackle, Domonique Orange, and it's one of those things where I really like him, but it's one of those things where I understand why they have to do it, and it works great in college. But it's also really frustrating when you have to scout a guy. And it's like, just stop looping him. Just let him rush.

But I would say defensively, because so many defenses are in two high schemes, a lot of, and they've been a lot more invert heavy. And when I say invert, it's like a corner that's on the outside is now screaming back to be a two, cover two safety. And then the safety that was high is now screaming down to be the flat defender. They're inverting roles. But the paint, the picture you're painting to the quarterback is, oh, it's single high, which cover one, cover three, and then you throw a throw thinking it's cover one, cover three if you are operating on time, which is not a lot with college quarterbacks. You throw it, but then it's cover two, and that's cover one, cover three and cover two couldn't be more opposite.

What more, I'd say both places are kind of like it's kind of a feedback loop on each other. Like, I could see NFL teams doing some stuff, and I saw some college teams doing this stuff I saw like the Arizona Cardinals doing, and vice versa.

And there's one thing that I've noticed more NFL teams are using more and more, and I think they should use more and more, is what they call mirror fronts. Which is, if you want to get the longer term, it's odd mirror. Odd is the defensive front. Odd is three guys, three guys, odd number, one, two, three. Even is four guys, even number. So odd mirror is you do a three-down front. You'd have two linebacker types or two defenders. It could be safety, it could be another defensive lineman that's really fast. You have them off the ball. Wherever the running back goes in one way, that one off-ball guy takes the running back. The other guy is a QB spy, a mirror of the quarterback. Definitely have to use that in college because how fast so many of these quarterbacks are and how much they want to run. So everybody has it kind of in college, or a majority do.

And I've seen Georgia do it for years. I've seen teams in the SEC do it for years now. I'm now seeing more NFL teams do it, and it is giving quarterbacks fits, especially the guys that like to create the Josh Allens of the world, the Mahomes of the world, because the defensive ends usually have to be very pocket sound. You have to contain and rush outside. When you do these mirror fronts, they have a two-way go. So they can go inside. And so what will happen is tackle sets outside. All of a sudden, he gets beat inside. And then the quarterback goes, oh, rushing lane. All right, I'm going to go. And then here comes the mirror guy screaming over the top, running full speed and getting them. And I'm seeing more call, or NFL teams do that more. I want to say more do it, and they should, because I've yet to see NFL teams really come up with good counters to it. Because you can flood the passing lanes now because you're dropping seven. You can run passing cons, or pass coverages that are baiting the quarterback to run. Like if you run man coverage behind it, oh, the quarterback goes, oh, all their backs are turned. I'm good. And then here comes the mirror guy getting you.

So that is one thing I've seen college teams do. And I would say the first team I ever saw do it was Jim Leonhard at Wisconsin and then Georgia were doing it in the way with Kirby. Where those were the first teams I really saw popularize it. And then I see now more and more NFL teams do it. And yeah, so that's one little kind of like scheme thing I've seen getting copied.

My final question, just because I want to bring balance into the universe, because of both Jeremiah Love and Eli Raridon talk. Oregon, my team. Oregon, listen, I sent you a message like two years ago about Kenyon Sadiq when he was like the third string. And I said, listen, I'm just telling you, this dude is something else. And so he's looked at as tight end one because of athletic versatility and just an absolute outlier athletically. And Dillon Thieneman, on the other side of the ball, is looked at as a top flight safety because of his versatility. I'm wondering how you project them forward, what you think of them, because the season did not end super well for me as an Oregon fan against the number one overall pick. So just bring some sunlight to the Oregon Ducks to finish out my round of questioning.

Yes, Sadiq is also all bus team, first off. Like, just look at his shoulders.

Bus in a good way, to be clear. Bus can have a draft coverage. All bus team is a good thing.

All torso.

Yeah.

Yes. It's the guys that come off the bus first and you go, ooh, like that's, you know, it's the, I think Tressel was the king of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Tressel will walk out onto the field with his biggest lineman. And I always noticed that. He knew exactly who he was walking out in the field with every single time. And it wasn't the captains. It was the guy who said, if you, if you sorted by weight, they're, they're probably up there with him.

Um, but anyways, Sadiq, I have on, he's somewhere on the Vernon Davis, Tommy Tremble spectrum.

Oh, wow.

Like, he's that type of player. He's somewhere in there. And he's not quite as big as Davis, but he, they have a lot of like freak athletes, how they catch the ball. I think Sadiq sometimes is the most natural hand catcher. And that's how Davis was. They're almost like too strong. They're like, squeeze the ball a little too hard. But I, oh man, he's so explosive, and that's all that matters right now. NFL is creating explosives, he can do it with the ball in his hands, not gonna really juke a guy, but he can really get downfield in a hurry.

I thought certain games you got to see a little bit more of his downfield ability as a route runner. Again, I'll bring up that Rutgers game. He had two touchdowns against Rutgers on vertical routes, and you got to see his ball skills. And that those that really helps because he's not what you picture maybe as the perfect kind of build tight end. You'd think those guys are more powerful. He's built like a, you know, small forward, um, but a rocked-up small forward.

Uh, you know, so, but he's a tough blocker, like a willing blocker. He's not going to do all the what we call inline stuff, like I mentioned, like Raridon doing. But the fact that he's not a nothing is a feather in his cap. He's athletic enough to split out. I had him at 19 on my big board, but I just, I really liked him because it was just like, it's, I just think he has to be a very specific home. He's not like a no-doubter. Like Bowers to me was such a no-doubter. I had Colston Loveland a little bit more higher than Sadiq and Tyler Warren, but not that much higher because I just thought the size and everything.

But I think Sadiq is just so explosive, real receiving ability, improving route running that if he goes to certain places, I think we had him going to the Bucs in our last mock. And I actually really like that because he has other weapons. He doesn't have to be force-fed a whole bunch of stuff. They have another tight end so he can be off-ball and do be more used creatively.

They have other Oregon Ducks, right? They have Bucky Irving.

They have Bucky Irving. Yeah. What's his name? On, that the little receiver on the outside, who oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, people wouldn't show up about him this summer, and I was like, he's not going to stay healthy, though. Uh, what's his name? Tez Johnson.

Tez Johnson.

Tez Johnson. Yes, yeah. Tez Johnson. Yes. Oh my God. Yeah, he was like a fantasy football wonder because everyone got hurt on the Bucs. And yeah, he came out.

And then Thieneman is, I think what really helped him was, you mentioned the versatility.

Yeah, being versatile.

His Purdue tape, I actually projects to maybe how he gets used in the NFL more because of how he got used on the back end. But the fact that he can do everything and he's also a good athlete is going to give him a lot of fans. Um, safety value is so weird, it's very teams weigh it all differently. It's just that you can find more safeties. I mentioned that with slot. It's like offensive guard a little bit. You can just find more guys at that position. Slot receiver, you can find a lot of slot receivers. Same with this, but because he has an, uh, of course, he's intelligent, I think when he closes on the football. That's the highlight to me.

Like, so they would use him a, that rover, I don't know what else to call it position. You see, Budda Baker used to like it in the NFL. It's what they used to call him Monster Back back in the day, but no one calls it that anymore. That's just me using my dad's older boomer terminology. But it's just spin ball, see ball, or find ball, get ball. And you see him really close down on run plays. I really like that. And he's a good tackler in space.

So I think the fact that he's good at a lot of things. And the fact that he tested well is going to give him fans. So he's going to, everyone, he might go early teens. Some teams really like him, like the Cowboys are interested in him at 12. But I'm more comfortable with him a little later, but I still have a first-round grade, or not first-round grade, but he's in my top 30, is maybe the best way I put it because it's not true first-round grade.

But yeah, no, he's, he's, but the guys going back to school are interesting too. That's for Oregon. That's, that's what I'm. I have more eyes on some of the guys that went back.

Oh, the defensive line. Yeah, I always want to say ukulele, but it's not ukulele.

Yeah.

He's been. I just feel like I've watched him for so many years now. But I like him more as a round two-ish guy. A'Mauri Washington at defensive tackle. I like him. I had him as a top 25 guy before he declared back to school. He had some moments of frustration too, but man, his highs are really, really high.

And then maybe in two years, there's maybe some of the other guys and that their running back's really interesting. They have a receiver that's really interesting. They have another tight end this year. I flashed a little bit as well.

But no, they're both good players. The league really likes them. They're getting a lot of steam right now. I think both end up at the latest mid-twenties, and I think the earliest, early teens, both of them. Sadiq's getting some love from the Chiefs, which I think is interesting. And they're picking at nine. So that, yeah, firepower, man. Like, that's, if you can take a five-yard catch and turn it into 45, like teams are going to love you. And that's what he can do.

Nate Tice, Yahoo Sports, 301 podcast. Final, final, final question. I promise you've been so generous with your time. I know you got better things to do.

No, this is great.

We got two top ten picks coming in by New York Giants. They decided they're not, I guess, not going to play the run this year the same way they didn't last year. Five and ten on the board. What are the two picks? Should they go defense and then Jordyn Tyson? I think you're a little skeptical on Jordyn Tyson for what I've seen in your coverage thus far. What should the two picks be if you're the guy making the picks?

Yeah, not only just skeptical on Jordyn Tyson, just I think teams are rebuilding, which the Giants are. I know Harbaugh's going to get them right, but they're rebuilding. Do not go receiver. It's just kind of they're the cherry on tops to the rebuild. They're the final piece. They are not the thing, they're not the foundation of a rebuild. And I see a lot of dumb teams draft receivers early. And I'm like, you guys aren't in a position to be drafting that.

But so to me, five and ten should be defense, defense, or defense, and then guard or offensive line, I should say, I picked 10. And that's where that's the comfortable range, I think, for a lot of these linemen, a lot of where these teams are viewing these linemen. So I think 10, but I wouldn't be at five. If Styles is there, I don't think he might be. I would love that for them. Caleb Downs, I'd be very comfortable and I would totally understand it.

You got to think of how the Giants on third and long the last couple of years have been one of the most frustrating defenses to ever watch. Like, they'll need offenses in third and ten, and they'll let up some four-yard catch, and it'll go to the house. It won't even be just a first down, it'll go score. So, who to best solidify that? One of the smartest defenders on the back end that can do a little bit of everything. That's Downs to me. You know, and that, so that's, that's how I consider those two top two picks is defense, defense in some way, shape, or form. And then hope somebody jumps for a receiver or two receivers.

I will say the fact that Joe Schoen has met with Jordyn Tyson, and that's what just keeps getting reported, I keep shrugging my shoulder at that because Harbaugh's making the pick.

Yeah.

So it's kind of when it's like, that's nice. You know, that's great. Good, good for Joe. You know, that's kind of, that's kind of how I view it a little bit. It's like, all right, that's, that's nice. You might like him, but I don't, he's not making the pick.

So, to me, I would prefer if they went defense, defense. And I actually think they're set up decently to do that, where they can get two pretty much I would call impact players at those spots. Somewhere. Some Ohio State guy. An Ohio State guy in the top 10. I'd be covering. Bring him over. Bring him. Bring him. Easy. There you go. We're cool with it.

All right. We have taken up so much of your time. When can people find the live show that you're doing for Yahoo Sports?

Oh, this little website called YouTube. You can check us out. Yeah, Yahoo Sports YouTube channel. We will be live Thursday for round one, Friday for rounds two and three. Me, Charles McDonald, Matt Harmon, Andrew Siciliano on Thursday and then Jason Fitz on Friday. We'll be going pick by pick. I don't think we took a break last year.

Yeah, I watched it last year. I watched you guys used to be last year from some sitting there without going to the bathroom.

Oh, you did? I appreciate that. Thank you.

I did. You were great.

Thank you.

You guys did a great job. I watched it again this year. It's one of my favorite nights of the year. It's so weird. Every every I I I was a sucker for the draft as a kid and sat when it was Saturday, Sunday and I started to become more athletic, and also I had to play in AAU basketball tournaments. I remember being so pissed about that, I had to be playing basketball tournaments instead of watching the draft and watching Maurice Clarett be the last pick of the third round. You know, like those are the memories of my childhood as opposed to like any basket I scored in seventh grade or eighth grade.

That says a lot.

That says a lot.

It does, right?

Yeah. I just did an interview and they were trying to explain it: how do you explain to someone that doesn't know the draft to them? And I go, well, luckily, I haven't met a lot of those people. So it's really hard. You got to understand how, how much can I swear in the show, but you gotta understand how my brain is. It's like, so me explaining this stuff is not maybe the best person to explain it because I'm like way in the weeds. But yeah, I was sad that I had to place sports instead of watching an administrative process regarding.

That's really what it is.

I know when you think, I know, yeah. But at least it's eight minutes a night, too, uh, or eight minutes a pick now. So they shaved off two minutes a pick. Let's, let's speed this thing up.

So beat it up, man.

All right. Well, big boards on Yahoo. So check that out. Check out the big book. Thank you guys so much. This is one of my favorite shows. So thank you guys for having me always. So I really appreciate it.

Always great to get your wisdom. Enjoy the draft. We will talk to you. I mean, same time, same place next year for sure, but maybe before then. We'll see how it goes.

All right. Sounds good.

All right, there you go. That might have been the longest we have gone with Nate in the game that we have been doing this.

So good. Dude's an encyclopedia, man. He knows stuff inside out.

Yeah, especially when you're like, okay, give me some names of guys that specif, that fit this specific mold. And he's like, yeah, my number nine slot corner. Like, okay. And goes into detail. Like, this is not him doing his job. This is him getting lucky that he was able to turn in a very clear obsession and passion into his job.

Yeah, you don't apply for this job. You don't apply for it because it's a job and it's a paycheck. You do this because you love it. And I think that's apparent when you hear him speak.

Yeah, I think if Nate were an accountant and he were just, you know, in an elevator with somebody, he would also be talking about Arvell Reese, right? In those terms. That's right.

Yes. So, yeah, this is, it's just who he has to be.

Beautiful. Well, always a pleasure. Go and check out his fine work again at Yahoo Sports, the 301 podcast. The show that he and some of his colleagues are going to do, as he said, out on YouTube, on Thursday and Friday. And truly, this is not me just like blowing smoke. I did watch it. I watched it exclusively last year, and I turned others on to it as well because I think they did a really good job. So I'll probably go that route again this year. And react to or watch them react to whatever the Giants decide to do.

Yeah. No, I think the live watch-along stuff is a lot more fun than the broadcasts themselves. Because, look, the broadcasts have the rights to show you what these players look like on the field, and that's terrific, but it is a lot of the same kinds of conversations that they've already been having. And I think it's a lot more entertaining to watch something like Nate on Yahoo. I think it's great.

All right. Well, again, big thanks to Nate. On our next episode, I believe the plan is to do something of a vibe check in the SEC. Yeah?

Yes. We're going to start a vibe check. We're going to continue our vibe checks. We did it with John Kurtz in the Big 12.

Yeah.

We're going to do an SEC check-in.

Absolutely.

All right. So that is to follow a little bit later on this week. And then, as I mentioned, it's not the last you've heard of the draft. We will, we'll cook up something, I think, a little bit different that we've never done before. It has been requested in the past. We will talk through some of these tidbits here as we have a little bit more clarity on landing spots. How guys fit in, and maybe give you something useful in the process if we do it right. So, that is to follow.

Hit follow or subscribe if you have yet to do so, so that you do not miss any of the off-season episodes. And of course, check us out at verballers.com for that guy over there, Dan Rubenstein, for myself, Ty Hildenbrandt. Thank you, as always, for downloading, for listening, for supporting. We will catch you all on Thursday. In the meantime, stay solid. Peace.