2026-05-26 Bed or Built - College Football Narratives to Put to Rest (raw)

00:18 Ty Hildenbrandt: Dan Rubenstein, much like Ed Orgeron, we are back like we never left. Welcome back to the pod, good friend. How goes it? How was your weekend?

00:28 Dan Rubenstein: Good, good, good. Went to Milwaukee. Love the great state of Wisconsin. Great weather. Saw Brewers Dodgers. Went over to a lake not terribly far away. Really did the like very early Midwestern summer, which I think It's not a false start, football-term-wise. I think it's true. It looks like we're in the 70s at least moving forward. So I'm very happy about that. Got a lot of good sunshine. I enjoyed your Ed Orgeron reference. It's always great to have him back in the college football consciousness. I did see he had a quote about Brian Kelly and the accent. He was like, “As soon as I saw that, I knew he was done,” right? That was, it's not a bad, I'm paraphrasing here.

01:11 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's not a bad Orgeron impression, actually.

01:11 Dan Rubenstein: It's not the best, Coach O.

01:14 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's not bad.

01:15 Dan Rubenstein: It's not the worst. It's not near the best. Oh, you got to get down. In the like, you got to feel it in your belly in the diaphragm.

01:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

01:23 Dan Rubenstein: I am, I'm about as a native from a place that's about as far away from southern Louisiana as it gets in this great land. But I can hold my own with the average Coach O impersonators.

01:36 Ty Hildenbrandt: It's not bad at all. Well, Ed Orgeron, excuse me, Coach O, whatever you want to call him, is back with LSU.

01:40 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

01:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: There's not a whole lot of meat to that, other than to say that Coach O is back. And I think we all sort of celebrate that in our own special. Ways, we've got a fun concept for the Verballerhood today, which you could unveil momentarily. Before we get there, though, of course, you know the housekeeping.

02:00 Dan Rubenstein: Yes.

02:01 Ty Hildenbrandt: Hit follow, hit subscribe if you've already done that and want to help Dan and I out. Go on out to Verballers.com and check out what we offer. On our Patreon, you can of course get access to the Discord, get access to all of the games that we are in the process of building for the coming season, get these episodes early without the ads, all that good stuff. If you have yet to do so, we would encourage you to please drop a five-star review wherever you can. That would be much appreciated. It helps assure others out there, college football fans, sickos like you and I. That is a fun show. Players you can stop by, plays you can talk college football the full year through.

02:44 Dan Rubenstein: Yes. So the concept we're doing, just because we are sort of entering into the June portion of the calendar, and I'm a big proponent, Ty, of closure, right?

02:55 Ty Hildenbrandt: Are we all?

02:56 Dan Rubenstein: You have to sort of make peace with what isn't anymore. Sort of lean into what is. And so, what we're doing is a game that I am at least temporarily calling Bed or Built. Is it time to put this commonly held belief or narrative to bed? It's a little lullaby there, Ty. I tried to find the little like a music boxy type thing. I couldn't find one that felt appropriate.

03:26 Ty Hildenbrandt: There's a little bit of like we're doing a drone shot of Hole 12 at Augusta National to this.

03:32 Dan Rubenstein: Correct. Oh, absolutely. Maybe like a flashback in a movie when you're in the middle of the morning. Times were simpler and you were running on the beach.

03:41 Ty Hildenbrandt: Before the divorce, that type of thing?

03:42 Dan Rubenstein: Yes. Absolutely.

03:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

03:44 Dan Rubenstein: Splashing in the waves, being bashful in front of the camera. Yeah. So there's that element to it, but that's my lullaby sound.

03:49 Ty Hildenbrandt: Putting some sunscreen on the little ones, yeah, yeah, I could see it.

03:52 Dan Rubenstein: Of course, of course, of course. With like an old eight millimeter camera with the breaking up of the film. Obviously. Or, so we're calling it Bed or Built, or if this commonly held belief or narrative is built to last. That's the sound I have: built to last. Like, if you were trying to make a Christopher Nolan trailer on a budget, right?

04:16 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, that's like when when you get the the title that just sort of stomps in and shakes the screen.

04:17 Dan Rubenstein: That's. Yes. Yes.

04:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: Play that one more time.

04:24 Dan Rubenstein: Like, or it's sort of like you do it over and over again: like, you don't know Jason.

04:25 Ty Hildenbrandt: Man, that's... yeah.

04:34 Dan Rubenstein: Statham! I should have had those quicker, but you get the idea. Built to last. Like Jason Statham is unkillable, obviously.

04:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: Sure, sure, sure.

04:45 Dan Rubenstein: So that's the game. So we're going to go through a number of, over the past couple of years, commonly held beliefs or narratives about various topics within the sport. whether or not we are officially putting them to bed as we look forward to the college football future, or if we are saying not unlike a like a GMC pickup truck commercial. It's built to last. Is that Built to Last??

05:06 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

05:07 Dan Rubenstein: I don't remember who not a sponsor. I think absolutely could be.

05:10 Ty Hildenbrandt: Could be, yeah, absolutely could be.

05:13 Dan Rubenstein: It means we could probably get Will Arnett on the show. I think there's a lot that could come good with that.

05:16 Ty Hildenbrandt: And he could maybe help you with your impression game.

05:16 Dan Rubenstein: So, yeah.

05:19 Ty Hildenbrandt: He's pretty good at that, too.

05:19 Dan Rubenstein: I mean, he's not just pretty good, he's terrific. So, that's the game. Bed or Built.

05:24 Ty Hildenbrandt: I like it. I like it. Well, of course, for those listening at home, solidverbal@gmail.com is how you can get in touch. Can also go to our website, solidverbal.com, if you have more to say on any of these topics and leave your thoughts there. Send those on in. We read them all, can't respond to them all, but we do appreciate hearing from the Verballerhood, Dan. You put together this list of things today. You sent them over this morning. I've had a pretty good chance to go through them and formulate some thoughts. Why don't you introduce them? What do you want to introduce first? Which narrative?

05:59 Dan Rubenstein: All right, let's do one that is sort of connected to both of our teams in that we're familiar with the head coach, and they were big last season. They played Notre Dame last season. It was probably one of the three most important games of the regular season when you look at the playoff. And that is Mario Cristobal, head coach of Miami. Can't stop tripping over himself when it matters not the most, not in the biggest game, but when it matters to a medium degree, right?

06:32 Ty Hildenbrandt: Okay, I was going to ask you, what do you mean by trip over themselves? Because they played for the national championship, right? And they weren't that far off from, you know, I mean, they were competitive, right? So what does trip over themselves mean to you?

06:45 Dan Rubenstein: Lose in somewhat embarrassing fashion, perhaps late in a game, that prevents them from achieving their broader and bigger goals. Now, obviously, last year they were able to overcome the Louisville and SMU losses, which were mistake laden, I would say is fair to say. that it was self-inflicted rather than a team just straight up smashing them or something. Obviously, you go back to the way some of the early games of his tenure at Miami ended. You look at a couple years ago. Georgia Tech and not just putting a knee down a couple of years ago now, two, three years ago now to finish out a game, but trying to literally run the clock out. And the SMU game and the intercept, like It hasn't been the biggest games of Miami's season. They haven't dropped big emotional spots. They haven't dropped games against the best teams on their schedule necessarily, because the other team was just better. But. The self-inflicted wound era of Miami football is now done because Miami was able to weather those wounds last year and perform at an extraordinarily high level in the College Football Playoff. Almost winning the national championship.

08:00 Ty Hildenbrandt: Okay. Um, I have perpetuated this about as much as anyone.

08:06 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

08:08 Ty Hildenbrandt: And I think you could look at the team this year and say, wow, there's a lot new, because there is a lot new. The offensive line is being rebuilt. We've got a pass rush.

08:17 Dan Rubenstein: But this isn't about the team.

08:19 Ty Hildenbrandt: I know, I know.

08:19 Dan Rubenstein: This is about preparation, getting a team ready to execute. And when you have a timeout here and there's three and a half minutes there, right? That the sideline Is ready to get this team ready and is ready to do their job to close out games or not lose in consistently self-inflicted ways.

08:37 Ty Hildenbrandt: The reason that I bring this up though, I'm saying given where they're at in twenty twenty six,

08:39 Dan Rubenstein: Okay.

08:44 Ty Hildenbrandt: You could look at all that they have new. You could look at a few of the trapportunities, as you've started referring to them, on this schedule, and you could say

08:50 Dan Rubenstein: Thank you.

08:54 Ty Hildenbrandt: A tripping over themselves type of situation would be a little bit more defensible and understandable given the turnover there.

09:02 Dan Rubenstein: Right, and nobody's perfect, right.

09:03 Ty Hildenbrandt: Nobody's perfect. I think it's time to put this one to bed, though.

09:09 Dan Rubenstein: I think I'm with you.

09:11 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think it's time to put this one to bed. Miami just played for the national championship. Miami has a team this season despite all the change. That is still projected to be a top-10 offense and defense per the SP. Miami landed Darian Mensah from Duke, landed his top target from Duke, and still, at the end of the day, despite all the turnover, has a loaded roster. So yes, there have been moments. Yes, Cristobal is still Cristobal. But I am just about past the point where this feels like it should be a talking point. They may suffer a loss. That might happen. They're not going to be any different from anyone else in that sense of the word because, you know, upsets go down. It's a long season.

10:03 Dan Rubenstein: Sure.

10:04 Ty Hildenbrandt: But I feel like Miami has separated itself so much From the next tier in the ACC, that this is not going to be a thing that we're talking about a whole lot longer.

10:16 Dan Rubenstein: You don't think they'll be up twenty one in the fourth quarter against Virginia Tech? to sort of help put a cap on the season and blow that in the fourth quarter because of weird decisions and turnovers.

10:25 Ty Hildenbrandt: No, I don't. Well, not if they're playing Virginia Tech because that's James Franklin. We'll get to that a little bit.

10:31 Dan Rubenstein: Well, right. So that's almost a double whammy, right?

10:32 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, yeah.

10:34 Dan Rubenstein: That's a like Sgt. Bilko, two boxers punch each other in the face and both go down because they were both under the impression that they were throwing the fight. Right.

10:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: I mean, look, there is a fundamental difference between going into a trap game on the road, like we talked about the North Carolina game on, I believe, the episode we did with our friend Tim Murray. Go listen to the VSiN Sports Betting podcast.

10:57 Dan Rubenstein: Right.

10:57 Ty Hildenbrandt: Tim was very kind to invite us both on, and he was asking us about these sort of trapportunities, as you've phrased them, which I think is a great way to put it. And I mentioned that the week before Miami goes to Notre Dame, they square off against North Carolina. I'm not curious about North Carolina this year, but you can understand why you'd look in a matchup like that and say, hey, there's a pretty big trap opportunity there. I could definitely see a world in which Miami doesn't blow the doors off of North Carolina, where that game ends up being close, or maybe even North Carolina covers. But I don't feel like I'm at the point now. Like I was a year ago, by the way, I talked up the Miami-Pitt game. All preseason. I don't feel like I'm at this moment where I'm going to look at Miami and say, oh, yeah, they're going to lose that game to North Carolina. Might be closer, but they're going to win that game. They're going to go into that Notre Dame game with a full head of steam.

11:46 Dan Rubenstein: Right. Do you think that Darian Mensah has the emotional maturity to gather everybody in this Miami program, to get everybody on the same page? and have somebody from the program in a way that, like, you think about like the orphanage and all the little beds and it's nighttime. Look, here's the lullaby, right? Like, do you think there's like, tell us, Papa, what's it like to win the ACC? Tell us. Tell us again. We don't know. Tell us, Papa, because Darian Mensah ACC champion, yes?

12:19 Ty Hildenbrandt: Is that your orphan child, Oliver, little bit?

12:22 Dan Rubenstein: It's like the range that I have to do coach O and tell us, Papa.

12:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: What is that?

12:30 Dan Rubenstein: I don't know, man. Maybe it's it's just a uh the the gods are shining down on my vocal cords today. Um, I'm saying it's put to bed just because kind of of what the ACC looks like, but I also want secretly. Deep down, Ty, for us to agree to put this to bed. And the most Miami thing would be to then feel like they've put it to bed with how they finished last year and have it never leave.

12:53 Ty Hildenbrandt: Bring it back to life, yeah. I think I'm with you.

13:00 Dan Rubenstein: That it's always just lurking in a supply closet deep within the program. So I the hopefully regular part of my brain says, I think I am ready to say they've turned a corner in that regard.

13:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think I'm with you. By the way, just full disclosure here. We did look up before you pulled that royalty-free version for the lullaby. We did do a little bit of deep cover work and wanted to see if we could get any snippets from the 1998 smash single “Lullaby” by Shawn Mullins. I sent you the picture of Shawn Mullins on the album cover. Way too creepy to involve on this podcast.

13:40 Dan Rubenstein: I agree.

13:41 Ty Hildenbrandt: We can't do that.

13:42 Dan Rubenstein: I agree.

13:42 Ty Hildenbrandt: Way creepier than I expected, to be honest with you.

13:45 Dan Rubenstein: Are you ready for a new one?

13:46 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

13:47 Dan Rubenstein: Okay. I don't know why I played that because I don't know if I'm putting this to bed. You ready? Let's go with Matt Rhule is a turnaround genius. Okay, so here's what we know about Matt Rhule as a coach.

14:03 Ty Hildenbrandt: A genius. I feel like I've perpetuated this one a lot, too.

14:06 Dan Rubenstein: Took a, I don't think it's limited to you. Matt Rhule takes Temple, a long-forgotten champion. No. He takes Temple, who just have been down forever and ever when he arrives, and it's just. Not an attractive program to sort of step into in a white glove turnkey way and keep on winning, right? Temple needed everything. They needed all of the elbow grease and more, and he takes them into a pretty formidable place, right? They're competing on a huge level in conference, out of conference. They're generating NFL draft picks. They're running a fun offense, you know, mobile quarterback. they become a legitimately incredible story with how down they had been before he arrived. And he obviously parlays that into a Baylor gig. which was obviously awful for on and off field reasons when he arrived, signs a long term deal. They're pretty bad. They immediately become kind of feisty and then takes them to I want to say was it the Sugar Bowl against Georgia? was how he concluded his time.

15:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's right.

15:12 Dan Rubenstein: in Waco and not necessarily recruiting the best of Texas high school talent, but finding guys, especially on defense, that fit his program and finding enough on offense to win games in the Big 12, parlays that into a

15:13 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yep.

15:27 Dan Rubenstein: disastrous time with the Panthers, and then that doesn't work out. And this will be his fourth season, I believe, in Lincoln. Takes the job in 2023. And we are four years in, and I just saw Troy Dannen, AD, newish AD of Nebraska, is preaching patience with regard to the Cornhusker rebuild. Four years in, and obviously what Curt Cignetti has done has ruined it for everybody.

15:54 Ty Hildenbrandt: Literally everybody is ruined by Cignetti.

15:56 Dan Rubenstein: And so Remove the Cignetti factor if you can, but we also are living through a time in which you can Use the portal in savvy ways and expensive ways to dramatically improve specific parts of your team quickly. And Nebraska hasn't necessarily done that. So they made a bull. They are the current Pinstripe Bowl champions, correct?

16:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: That is correct.

16:24 Dan Rubenstein: Okay. That's a step in the right direction for this Nebraska program. But we are also talking about a Nebraska program that is Hanging its hat on making a bowl game, a minor bowl game, which does not still feel right for those who have rooted for the Huskers for a while.

16:39 Ty Hildenbrandt: So you you think this is built to last, is what you're saying.

16:42 Dan Rubenstein: I'm saying built to last.

16:44 Ty Hildenbrandt: God, that scares me.

16:46 Dan Rubenstein: I don't know what you're pointing to right now with team composition, future at quarterback and offensive progress to say we can put it to bed. No, no, sorry. I'm saying we're putting this to bed, turnaround genius.

17:01 Ty Hildenbrandt: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see. I that's why I was confused a little bit.

17:03 Dan Rubenstein: I am putting the idea of Matt Rhule because I don't know, Big Ten's harder than Big 12 was then, obviously, where Temple was as a program. But I just think the context is a lot more difficult now. I'm ready to put it to bed. Turn around, genius.

17:18 Ty Hildenbrandt: I mean, year four is exactly where this gets tested. I mean, it's been a running test, and obviously, the Dylan Raiola stuff with Him agreeing to come to Nebraska and now transferring out, and he was hurt for a chunk of the year.

17:30 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

17:31 Ty Hildenbrandt: You know, that I think has complicated to some extent this whole narrative. But coming into twenty twenty six, Nebraska no, it's everybody else.

17:41 Dan Rubenstein: And by the way, it's not Matt Rhule saying, I am a turnaround genius. Wait till you see year three. But yeah, but that's been the narrative.

17:49 Ty Hildenbrandt: Well, the narrative has been Turnaround Genius and Year Three. Those two things, I think, have been inextricably linked, and we didn't see it. Last year for Nebraska, but now coming into year four, maybe it's a little bit of a different setup, right? It's Anthony Colandrea It's a veteran offensive line. Will it be better on the offensive line? That remains to be seen. But I think a better wide receiver room. It's a new defensive staff. They're trying to fix some of their woes against the run. Year four is sort of the exact setup where we can get, I think, a better test of Matt Rhule's turnaround genius. It's just really hard to sell turnaround genius at this point.

18:25 Dan Rubenstein: At this point, yeah. I mean, we're also talking about, what, three defensive coordinators in three years for Nebraska?

18:30 Ty Hildenbrandt: Right, right. I mean, he is 19 and 19 and went five and one, but finished the year seven and six in back-to-back seasons. So it's just really tough, I think, to sell turnaround genius at this point. I think Penn State honestly bumped into this a little bit. After firing James Franklin, I stand by what I've said time and again, that I still think rule was sort of like the standby option, the direction they wanted to go. And then the public case for Rule bottomed out pretty quickly, given what was going on in Nebraska. So I just don't see it as a turnaround genius. They still could turn them around. The thing that he's up against is that college football has changed a lot. It's changed a lot. And that has also flown in the face of this turnaround genius narrative, right? He was able to turn Temple around pretty quickly, but that was in a much different conference. He was able to turn Baylor around pretty quickly, but that too was in a much different conference and at a completely different stage of college football. We're now a couple of years into the transfer portal doing what it has done to the sport. The Big Ten has obviously expanded and I think gotten harder. They've won now three consecutive national championships. It's just The game has changed since the turnaround genius thing was defined for Matt Rhule. So I'm with you. I'm putting it to bed. I still like Matt Rhule. I don't like him as much as I used to.

19:55 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, he seems like a likable dude.

19:56 Ty Hildenbrandt: I don't like him as a coach as much as I used to.

19:57 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

19:59 Ty Hildenbrandt: And I'm definitely not on board with the turnaround genius thing the way I was, you know, even like two years ago. But I think for the sanity of all involved, we should just put this one to bed.

20:10 Dan Rubenstein: His after his signed extension, which takes him through, I think, twenty thirty two, he'll make twelve point five million those last two years over I think his the average annual value of the deal is somewhere in the elevens. At Nebraska. As I see a furry tail behind you, as if you're watching on YouTube, which you should subscribe on YouTube.

20:28 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, yeah, she's down here with me. She's down here with me. Yeah, I got both down here, but only one is finding her way into the frame.

20:32 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah. Fair enough. You ready for a new one?

20:37 Ty Hildenbrandt: I'm ready.

20:39 Dan Rubenstein: All right. We've done Big Ten. We've done ACC. We've got a few from a lot of different conferences. All right. SEC, you ready? Lane Kiffin is misunderstood. Lane Kiffin is misunderstood.

20:54 Ty Hildenbrandt: Like he's this mysterious tortured artist? What?

20:58 Dan Rubenstein: Well, the last couple years have seen a number of fluff pieces. The hot yoga of it all. The like, I the self-improvement. I was young and brash and immature and insecure. And now that I have aged a little bit and figured out who I am. I am sort of locked in on this new era, and people's perceptions of me are outdated.

21:30 Ty Hildenbrandt: You're forgetting about the tender hug on the tarmac with Marty Smith. Don't forget that. That's important, too.

21:34 Dan Rubenstein: I will never forget that seminal moment of the 2025 season. So, Can we put to bed the idea that Lane Kiffin is misunderstood and grown and different? Can we put that idea to bed? Or are you ready to say like that's built to last, that this is a new Lane Kiffin?

21:59 Ty Hildenbrandt: I feel like this is the first one you've mentioned where I was like, who's saying that?

22:04 Dan Rubenstein: Well, there was hold on, what was the name of the the there was oh God, there was like a whole like not 30 for 30, but there was a I think a feature on E60.

22:04 Ty Hildenbrandt: Who's saying that? Right.

22:14 Dan Rubenstein: Do you remember what it was called? I'm looking it up right now.

22:16 Ty Hildenbrandt: I vaguely.

22:16 Dan Rubenstein: It's a great name. The Many Lives of Lane Kiffin.

22:21 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, that's great.

22:22 Dan Rubenstein: The many lives of Lane K. And I think the person who wrote that feature stopped writing about sports after that because of it.

22:30 Ty Hildenbrandt: I don't know, man. Like anytime I see the usual channels be flooded with stuff like this about Kiffin. I get vibes of like, oh, there's a nation state running some sort of psyop. You know, like, I don't think he's that mysterious. I don't. I think the book is out on Lane Kiffin at this point. I think he's a brilliant offensive mind. I think he is an aggressive roster builder. He loves the portal. He loves volatility. He loves being. Sort of the troll on the internet. And obviously, we had the whole exit from Ole Miss/slash Taking the job at LSU, slash trying to raid everybody's roster in order to build things up quickly down there. This guy just keeps telling everyone exactly who he is. At some point, we should probably believe him. I don't know if there are a whole lot of people out there who don't or haven't believed him to date. I think our Verballerhood is Pre-wise to who Lane Kiffin is at this point. So, the idea of him being misunderstood as a person, as a coach, with how he goes about his business, for me, that was Tibet a long, long time ago. I guess it depends on what you mean by misunderstood, because it's very easy to sort of lump in the other Lane Kiffin baggage with him as a coach and treat them as one and the same. And I. I think people contain multitudes. I think Lane can still be a very good coach and at the same time be this guy who thrives on chaos.

24:07 Dan Rubenstein: Right. I mean, I could have reworded it with like. Lane Kiffin has done a lot of growing. And by the way, sidebar here, one of the things that he has talked about and that has been written about is his like sobriety journey. Tip of the cap, kudos, not what we're talking about here.

24:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: No, that's no, we're not talking about that.

24:25 Dan Rubenstein: That is actual, like, commendable growth.

24:27 Ty Hildenbrandt: Absolutely. Absolutely. You should be commended for that.

24:29 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

24:30 Ty Hildenbrandt: And no, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Lane Kiffin essentially is the chaos candidate.

24:35 Dan Rubenstein: Correct.

24:36 Ty Hildenbrandt: And is there sort of more than meets the eye that we need to understand? I don't think so. So I put this one to bed like five years ago, Dan.

24:41 Dan Rubenstein: I Yeah, I we're putting look I if you look up stories, there are are Holly Anderson wrote for ESPN way back when, something like now that he's at FAU, “Has Lane Kiffin Finally Grown Up?”? That was a feature in 2017, which is almost a decade ago. Has Lane Kiffin finally grown up? And we're still seeing the many lives of Lane Kiffin and the hot yoga thing and everything that goes along with the Lane Kiffin experience. I don't think it's mean or untoward to say, I think who he's been, there are going to be elements that are going to continue in perpetuity with Lane Kiffin.

25:20 Ty Hildenbrandt: I'm not vilifying the guy. I'm not vilifying the guy. Sometimes you just are who you are. Everyone's different. And look, LSU made a choice here. People who cover LSU. I've been reading what they say all offseason long. They're the first to say, we chose this life. Ole Miss before them chose this life. You know what you're getting with Lane Kiffin. I don't think he's misunderstood. Among the people hiring him, but the guy does get results on the football field, which is ultimately what they're paying him to do.

25:49 Dan Rubenstein: And to be fair, you will hear a lot of people rushing to his defense. that recently also rushed Alpha Phi, Delta Gamma, Tri-Delt. I think those are the only ones I know. So, Pi Phi.

26:06 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

26:08 Dan Rubenstein: So, there we go. So, I am putting it to bed.

26:11 Ty Hildenbrandt: I'm putting it to bed too.

26:11 Dan Rubenstein: I am absolutely putting it to bed that he's misunderstood and grown.

26:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's I'm not just putting this to bed.

26:14 Dan Rubenstein: And that's okay.

26:17 Ty Hildenbrandt: This one's Let's just drive the final nail in that coffin. Like, it's not, he's not waking up from this one.

26:21 Dan Rubenstein: Okay.

26:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: This is just who he is.

26:24 Dan Rubenstein: Okay. Next one.

26:26 Ty Hildenbrandt: Next one.

26:27 Dan Rubenstein: All right. The next narrative. Ryan Day was born on third base. Ryan Day. And this is look, this is very specific to a specific fan base in Michigan.

26:37 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, what does this mean? I want you to define what this means to you as you

26:41 Dan Rubenstein: So this was the held belief that Ryan Day, in taking over as an internal hire for Urban Meyer, was gift-wrapped a championship program and should not be given credit for building it up and maintaining what he built, but rather he's merely a steward. of what Urban Meyer was able to do in modernizing recruiting and whatever the culture is at Ohio State, that Ohio State kind of recruits itself. And he's just the guy right now behind the wheel, and anybody could and should win at Ohio State. And he was gift-wrapped this opportunity without actually building, constructing. Here's a construction sound. you know, constructing Ohio State, just the guy who happens to be sitting in the chair at the moment.

27:33 Ty Hildenbrandt: I mean, how many instances have we seen where A great coach, or at least a very successful coach for a short period of time, turns the reins over to an assistant. And the thing goes like off the off the skids a little bit.

27:52 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

27:52 Ty Hildenbrandt: Like, didn't Oregon have this a little bit when they gave it to Mark Helfrich?

27:57 Dan Rubenstein: He yeah, he was able to keep it going for a while, but ultimately was not able to spin up Oregon in his own way. More than sort of draft off of the fumes of the Chip Kelly era. And I thought he was a good coach, but in terms of running a program that big and the day-to-day and the recruiting and culture of it all, I don't think he was that guy.

28:19 Ty Hildenbrandt: Like for every Ryan Day, there are five Larry Cokers. So I have a hard time with this. Urban Meyer walked away from Ohio State in 2018.

28:31 Dan Rubenstein: Yes.

28:31 Ty Hildenbrandt: We're pretty far into this thing now. And so, if there were going to be cracks showing up in the foundation, because Ryan Day is merely just a steward and not somebody who's able to Execute a longer-term strategic vision. Like we would have seen that stuff by now. Most of what we've talked about with Ryan Day is you know, they lost a big game, or whatever the hell happened a couple of years ago in that Michigan game, right, where they tried to play bully ball and ended up For whatever reason, losing, but then they go on to win the national championship. Like, I just understand why this argument is made. Clearly, he was gifted a program that had a ton of resources. And maybe he had an incredible head start given where the program was at. When Urban Meyer walked away.

29:19 Dan Rubenstein: Right.

29:19 Ty Hildenbrandt: But they've maintained, man. The national championship they won a couple of seasons ago was not because of Urban Meyer. That was because of the talent that they brought in and Ryan Day finding a way, I think at the last second. After that loss to Michigan, to kind of circle the wagons and figure out what the path forward was going to be. So I just get it, but I don't buy it. I still think he's a really, really good coach.

29:43 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, I'm absolutely putting it to bed. It's just it's also too difficult a job to do by Coasting off of what the previous guy did and the amount of pressure that's at Ohio State to nail every Coaching hire, to nail every recruiting class, to nail every playoff, to nail every Big Ten season, right? Now, you can say that the best of Michigan However, you look at what Michigan was the last two, three years of the Jim Harbaugh era, and however tainted you do or don't feel like that was, he couldn't solve it. That was something that is definitely on the Ohio State program, right? The talent was there, the infrastructure was there, and they were able to win a national championship despite it. And so because it what was, what, six years after Urban Meyer left, that's an inordinate amount of pressure. And I feel like he has Largely risen to the occasion, right? He took them to the national championship. They lose, they get blown out by Alabama in the 2020 season. I want to say that was the Mac Jones year. And obviously, it seems like there was some regret over who he had on that staff, especially on defense. It was Carrie Coombs running the defense. Kind of a disaster there. But it seems like he's addressed enough of the issues that have plagued Ohio State to the point now where, look, that's a program with Top two expectations with Alabama, with Georgia, whoever you want to say. Like if you're not winning a national championship every, I don't know, three, four years, you're looked at in sort of An untoward way by the fan base. So, no, I think I'm happy to put this one to bed.

31:33 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, and I saw the article. Out on The Athletic, either posted today as we record this on Monday, or maybe over the weekend, David Ubben, our friend. Check the math on, you know, right now as we're talking about a 24-team playoff and what would it have looked like over the last 12 years if you ran it back and expanded everything and like how many teams would make it. You know what I mean? They did find that 80 different teams would have made the 24-team playoff in that span of time, but Ohio State, along with Alabama, would have made it all 12 years. So to your point, there is an expectation there that Ohio State's going to be in the mix every year. And at least to that end, Ohio State under Ryan Day has very much been that. Every year they're a contender. Every year we talk about them as at a minimum top-10 caliber team. So you're not going to get them all. And for sure, there is a higher bar to clear if you're the coach at Ohio State. But it's not like this program has taken a dramatic left turn. Since Urban Meyer left, Ryan Day has done a very good job, in my opinion.

32:34 Dan Rubenstein: Yes, I agree. I've got a a trickier one, I would say. You ready?

32:38 Ty Hildenbrandt: Okay.

32:43 Dan Rubenstein: Texas A&M has a hard ceiling.

32:48 Ty Hildenbrandt: Hard ceiling

32:48 Dan Rubenstein: And obviously, a hard ceiling of Basically, every coach will win eight plus or minus one game every year with perhaps a blip year. So Jimbo had his blip year in the COVID year when they go 9-1, I want to say, just outside of the playoff.

33:07 Ty Hildenbrandt: Right, right.

33:08 Dan Rubenstein: Obviously, an incredible year for Kevin Sumlin. in the the Johnny Football era? Were they do they win 11 games? I believe they win 11 games in 2000 was it 11? No, excuse me, 2012. They win 11 games. They finished fifth in the nation. But otherwise, it has been a hard capped team. At around eight, nine with a bowl in or whatever. Like there's the joke about eight and four or eight and five, something with Texas A&M. Do you believe we can put that narrative to bed after Texas A&M makes the College Football Playoff, hosts a game last season in an SEC that has never been deeper, Texas A&M is a playoff team. Do you believe we can after that season, we can put it to bed?

33:56 Ty Hildenbrandt: I jotted down three question marks for this one. Because I am genuinely on the fence. By the way, my new favorite thing that I think we've rediscovered because the Texas A&M Texas game is back in our lives is the amount of Texas A&M people who write in with something negative to say about Texas and vice versa.

34:07 Dan Rubenstein: Yes, I love it.

34:13 Ty Hildenbrandt: I've enjoyed that dynamic at solidverbal@gmail.com. If you have something to add, please feel free to do so. I'm on the fence. I'm really on the fence here. I really don't know what to think because I like Mike Elko.

34:24 Dan Rubenstein: So

34:27 Ty Hildenbrandt: I like the team that he has put together. Obviously, he had the home loss in the playoff game last year, 10-3. Against Miami, but that was the weird weather game with the wind and just wasn't fun to watch. I'm sure it was less fun to play. But they did make the playoff. They do bring Marcel Reed back. They're a top ten team per preseason SP. They're working in a bunch of new pieces from the portal along the line, but it's not. It's not a roster to me that I look at and I say, oh, they're capped. You know, there's a very clear ceiling here.

35:06 Dan Rubenstein: No, good offensive skill back, by the way.

35:06 Ty Hildenbrandt: So, from that standpoint, yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:09 Dan Rubenstein: Rueben Owens and Mario Craver, and there's a lot of returning talent in the middle of this defense.

35:13 Ty Hildenbrandt: So it's not a roster that I look at and say, ah, you know, there's a glaring deficiency, and I could see where it's going to go sideways.

35:14 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

35:21 Ty Hildenbrandt: It is a tough schedule. This is an SEC gauntlet that.

35:23 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, Gauntlet.

35:25 Ty Hildenbrandt: They're going to be up against, but I don't see it from that standpoint. And so I think that's why I have a hard time really getting my head around this one.

35:34 Dan Rubenstein: I'm saying it's built to last.

35:37 Ty Hildenbrandt: Really?

35:37 Dan Rubenstein: I don't have a good reason for it.

35:38 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's my problem. I don't have a great reason for it, but I understand why you would mention it.

35:42 Dan Rubenstein: Okay, so this is basically across three conferences. Not really, maybe it's more two conferences. There were a lot of average years. In the Southwest Conference, but there was, you know, if you go back 70s and 80s, there were good stretches. You know, R. C. Slocum in the early to mid-90s was very good for Texas A&M, but when they made that switch to the Big 12, Six wins, nine wins, eight wins, seven wins, eight wins, six wins, four wins, seven, five, nine, seven, four, six, nine, se Eight in the regular season, but nine with the bowl win and the Chick-fil-A Bowl. Nine, eight, eight, eight, seven, nine, eight, nine, eight, five, seven, And then eight in Mike Elko's first year And obviously, a terrific year, but not the most difficult SEC schedule, because that's going to happen sometimes because a conference is so big that you're going to get a number of teams. at or below the Mendoza Line. I don't know how many teams they played that fired their coaches, but it's more than two from last season in the SEC. I'm going to say, until I see a coach at Texas A&M, and I'm a Texas A&M believer, I'm sort of carrying two things at once here. I think the pixie dust in the A&M universe is real that are saddling this program with baggage, but I'm still going to say until I see a coach and an era of Texas A&M football where they're able to match expectations, reputations or whatever with actual full season results, especially against a more difficult schedule. I got to see it, man. I got to go built to last. Again, I'm carrying two very opposing stances at the same time that I am indeed high on the Mike Elko era, and I am a believer in this team overcoming it.

37:29 Ty Hildenbrandt: I know. I know.

37:37 Dan Rubenstein: But this is like, I gotta see it. I gotta see it. It's just been too long a stretch.

37:42 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah. I have a hard time buying in on any narrative that is based on, well, that's just the way it's always been. And the cautionary tale on that front is very clearly Indiana.

37:56 Dan Rubenstein: Again, the outlier, complete outlier.

37:58 Ty Hildenbrandt: I know. I know, but we were used to Indiana being bad until suddenly they weren't. So I'm I Extreme example could absolutely see Texas A&M popping this year, but it has been built to last, though. There's a lot of data to suggest that this is just kind of I don't know. They're at a glass ceiling here for whatever reason. So I'll stick with built to last for now. I'm not necessarily rooting for that, and I don't feel strongly in this camp, but until proven otherwise.

38:25 Dan Rubenstein: No

38:31 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think it's fair enough to say, yeah, this one's built to last.

38:35 Dan Rubenstein: They get to the playoff and immediately do nothing.

38:39 Ty Hildenbrandt: The weather was horrible, though.

38:41 Dan Rubenstein: But it's bad for both teams

38:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: I know. I'm really on the fence with this one. I'm really uncomfortable with this question, but I get it.

38:48 Dan Rubenstein: And they were at home and they found the end zone zero times. They were shut out through three quarters at home.

38:53 Ty Hildenbrandt: I know. I know. I get it. I get it. I'm just let's move to the next one.

38:56 Dan Rubenstein: All right.

38:58 Ty Hildenbrandt: Where do you want to go next?

38:58 Dan Rubenstein: Next item.

38:59 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah.

39:00 Dan Rubenstein: All right, we did Matt Rhule turnaround genius. We did Mario. We did. Okay, here we go. Let's make it personal once again. Oregon will fall flat late in the season. That's just what we've come to expect.

39:10 Ty Hildenbrandt: Amen.

39:10 Dan Rubenstein: They've lost in the national championship twice. Michael Dyer's elbow was down. They get basically, well, not basically, literally run over by Zeke Elliott in a national championship game. And that was a game for a stretch. So they were. Eventually beaten down. It was a beat up Oregon team, but everybody's beat up by that time. And then Dan Lanning experience has been largely throttling teams, especially since they've their one loss in Big Ten play. But once again, throttled by an Ohio State team in the Rose Bowl, throttled by an Indiana team this past season. And so narrative being across Multiple coaches, Chip Kelly, Mark Helfrich, and now Dan Lanning late in the season. That Oregon is a regular season darling, but can't, for whatever reason, and it's different reasons every time. Can't figure it out in January.

40:13 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think this is built to last.

40:17 Dan Rubenstein: Okay.

40:17 Ty Hildenbrandt: And I think it's built to last in the same way that you think the Texas A&M narrative is built to last. You just got to prove. Otherwise, the problem for Oregon, and it's probably a bit harsh and unfair, Oregon keeps getting labeled by their last loss. And in their case, their last loss of the last two seasons were to two eventual national champions in Ohio State and Indiana. They're not losing to bad teams.

40:45 Dan Rubenstein: No, and even before that, they lose to Washington in the regular season. Washington beats them in the Pac-12 Championship. You remember that conference? The Pac-12 Championship Washington goes on to go to the national championship game. So that was a very strong Washington team that year. But yes, point stands.

41:01 Ty Hildenbrandt: I mean, this is the preseason number two team for the SP. Dante Moore is back, the defensive front is loaded, the roster.

41:08 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

41:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: Just has a ton back. It's absolutely loaded team. But there is a real pattern here. And I think until proven otherwise, this is what Dan Lanning is going to be up against. This is why I say it's built to last. The losses to Ohio State and Indiana. We're not particularly close, which I actually think is a bigger story than whether they won or lost. You'd prefer to win, but if you're going to lose, you'd prefer that that game be a little bit closer, at least I would as a fan, if I were a fan.

41:32 Dan Rubenstein: Right, always. Do you prefer, if you're an Oregon fan, not to throw a pick six on the opening throw?

41:40 Ty Hildenbrandt: I do, actually.

41:40 Dan Rubenstein: Is that something that is less than ideal?

41:42 Ty Hildenbrandt: I do.

41:43 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

41:43 Ty Hildenbrandt: That is less than ideal. So now on top of that You've got new coordinators. You've got a rebuilt offensive line. You've got a stretch in November of Ohio State, Michigan, Washington that I think is very much going to keep this narrative alive. Oregon, in all likelihood, is going to find their way into the playoffs. I'm not really worried about that. But we will have pockets later in the year where Oregon will have ample opportunity to fall flat against a good team. And I want to see how they respond this year now with You know, so much for turning back. And obviously, a quarterback in Dante Moore figures to be a top-five pick. But they got to prove it. Lanning's got to prove it. Now, my question back to you, because I know you feel similarly.

42:28 Dan Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Yep.

42:30 Ty Hildenbrandt: My question back to you is, assuming Oregon makes the playoff, is it championship robust to get over this narrative?

42:36 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah. With who they're bringing back, yes. And that well, we can delve into this more obviously during preview time. But with what they paid to retain both Dante Moore and what they are bringing back, bringing back what might be the best defensive line in the country, at least it's in that top group of teams. and how they've recruited, what they've done in the portal to secure more depth and/or starting talent. We'll see how the starting lineup shakes out. Yes. Now what you can point to for Oregon is a lot of things, right? They don't lose to clearly lesser teams. And we've seen a lot of championship caliber teams, maybe in non-championship years. Lose to, you know, have a Georgia-South Carolina moment or Miami earlier, right?

43:26 Ty Hildenbrandt: We talked about Miami earlier with Cristobal. Yeah.

43:29 Dan Rubenstein: Or take your pick, right? You know, a strong Ohio State team losing to Purdue or Iowa, something like that. The teams are not built as strongly as, you know, in this case, Oregon. Oregon doesn't lose those games, hasn't in a long time. Under Dan Lanning. So, in order to lose in the playoff, you got to get to the playoff. And Oregon seems to be a team built to do that for quite some time now. Oregon did go deeper last season, right? They're seemingly making progress before losing that specific game. And you can point to whatever excuse you want, but look, it's a binary thing. You're winning or losing. And Oregon wasn't even competing to win in that game pretty quickly against Indiana anyway, and Ohio State, down whatever they were at, 34-0 at halftime, 31-0. So you got to see it. You got to see it in that very specific scenario. And I'm positive if you asked Dan Lanning, if you ask anybody within that program, they would say the same thing: that you can't put it to bed. Because, and I'm speaking for them, we have to prove it on the field. We have to be the ones pulling the covers nice and snug over the narrative, not two goobers like Dan and Ty. And so. I'm saying it's built to last until we see Oregon rise to that moment. So it's built to last.

44:48 Ty Hildenbrandt: Again, it's kind of unfair because it's a really good team. It's a really good coach. It's a loaded roster, but they're at that point now.

44:56 Dan Rubenstein: If you gave me even odds, Oregon wins a national championship in the next four years, I would bet on them winning a national championship. I think the progress indicates roster-wise, coaching-wise, the degree to which Dan Lanning is still a young dude, is learning on the job.

45:05 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think that's fair.

45:18 Dan Rubenstein: I would bet on it, all things being equal.

45:20 Ty Hildenbrandt: They're very much victims of their own success, which I think is why, in large part, this kind of feels unfair.

45:23 Dan Rubenstein: Sure.

45:27 Ty Hildenbrandt: But I understand why the question is being asked.

45:27 Dan Rubenstein: Right.

45:29 Ty Hildenbrandt: And I tend to think right now it's until proven otherwise. You got to agree with it.

45:33 Dan Rubenstein: All right, you want to pick the last one? You see the bank of items in front of you. Is there one that jumps out to you as Bed or Built worthy?

45:41 Ty Hildenbrandt: I have two, both of the ACC. And the one that you jotted down, this was yours. You came up with all these, not me. But the one that really caught my attention was Clemson can't adapt. Clemson can't adapt. I think this one's a bit misunderstood.

46:05 Dan Rubenstein: Okay?

46:05 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think there's some nuance to it.

46:06 Dan Rubenstein: It's not just about the portal.

46:08 Ty Hildenbrandt: No, it isn't. Because of the comments that Dabo has made along the way. I think there is this perception out there that this is an old school coach and he's too stubborn to adapt. And to an extent, I think that is true. But I actually think Dabo's been forced to adapt a great deal. And the real question in my mind is not whether he's adapting, but whether he's any good at it. I think that's what we are seeing unfold in real time. I think back to a conversation, and you've heard me mention this before. People who have listened to this show have heard me mention this conversation before. Had a conversation, gosh, it had to be 10 years ago with our friend Larry Williams of Tiger Illustrated. And this is back when Clemson felt inevitable. They were kind of in the throes of the dynasty, or whatever we would consider the Clemson dynasty. And I remember asking him, What's it going to take for this to kind of crumble? Or for this to not be as successful, because at the time, again, they felt inevitable. It was just a conveyor belt. And I remember him saying vividly: some combination of assistant coaches leaving. with missing on a couple of recruiting cycles or a couple key pieces in recruiting classes.

47:22 Dan Rubenstein: Right.

47:23 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think Larry was right. I think he was spot on.

47:26 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, definitely was.

47:27 Ty Hildenbrandt: I don't think at the time he knew it. At the time, he was kind of grasping. I remember his tone when he answered the question. But I think in hindsight, Larry was right. Since then, there has been a lot of coaching turnover. The offense has certainly been a work in progress since 2020. I think we can definitively say that they've missed a little bit on the quarterback front. They certainly have not had a Deshaun Watson, Trevor Lawrence type. DJ U, Cade Klubnik, had moments, but they have certainly not proven to be the same caliber player as the other two. I think we can say for sure that Dabo has been slow to adapt. He has done more of it, though, than the the caricature would have you believe he tried Garrett Riley on offense that didn't really work now he's going back to Chad Morris We can argue about whether or not he's adapting at all, going back to an older coach. But hire Tom Allen, that was a big deal. A splash hire on the defensive side of the ball before last season, kind of a power move, right? They did make some defensive portal additions, more than they had in the past this offseason. I think they are making a clear attempt to fix some of that stuff. They're clearly going out there and trying to fix, like on offense, their run game. They're trying to make the team tougher. There are things that are afoot. But my issue here is that it very much feels like it's been Clemson trying to adapt on Clemson's terms. They're trying to like, in a sense, put the toothpaste back in the tube. I want to take a year and revisit this because if they don't hit with Christopher Vizzina at quarterback, if the Portal guys do not help on defense, at that point, it'd be fair to say Dabos just not good at adapting. It's not that he's not trying. It's not that he can't adapt. It's just that he's not good at it. So we'll see, right? No portal quarterback this year. They didn't. Go out there and go crazy on the offensive line. It's not like they have a veteran offensive line that's going to rescue them. They go with a nostalgia hire. At offensive coordinator. This is off of a seven and six season where they had a ton of NFL talent. So the skepticism is fair. I am not willing to put this one to bed yet. I would say gun to my head, I probably say built to last because I think there is mounting evidence that Dabo is just not good. At adapting, even though he is trying, I think, more than would meet the eye.

50:00 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, and it it felt like he was more of an assassin in the 2010s with regard to Look, it was a different era in terms of roster construction. But, like, even the whole turning to Trevor Lawrence, even with Kelly Bryant having taken the team to the playoff the year before, where it's like, Kelly Bryant's just not. Going to take us to where we imagine ourselves going. And it became like pretty clear that Cade Klubnik had a ceiling. And there is a There's something commendable about what Dabo has done and being loyal to players and not trying to recruit over them through the portal. But I don't know. There's the loyalty to the pool of assistants he's had over it. You look at the guys in the program, and it's just like, oh, this former running back, this former quarterback, this former tight end, this former safety, right? These are the ones. Taking over that he's keeping it like a very internal program. Like he's hiring from who he sees at reunions. And It's fine, it's commendable, but it also has you losing 34 to 3 to Georgia. It has you losing 10 to 3 to Georgia. It has you losing mult Multiple times in row or whatever to NC State or SMU Or being terrible, god awful in the red zone to open the season against Duke. I'm not saying every one of these things is the fault of being too loyal to former Clemson players and paying them to be coaches, but in terms of what Programs who became known as killers were doing. When you look at who he was compared against, right? Urban Meyer and Nick Saban, and how they ran their programs. They're like, this guy's not good enough to win a national championship at Clemson. but let's stick with him. It means that it I don't know if it's an adaptation, but it's almost as if like Dabo Swinney's standards have changed. Where he's just like, I'm not willing to do that to these people in pursuit of that in this era. And I just think it's built to last. I just don't see how you put that toothpaste back in the tube. Now, they did to their credit. I think it's 11 transfers coming in this season. I think there was 11 in, 13 or 14 out. So they have been more active this season in trying to address issues. But God, you go back to again, we're not holding him against him today. But there was a year in which their coordinators were Brandon Streeter and Wes Goodwin, an elevated analyst. Like that's who they it has a good reputation, Wes Goodwin. But that's who they brought in to replace the arguably most legendary and successful defensive coordinator in Clemson history. That's how we followed that act. And so, as good as Brent, as great as Brent Venables was, you're just like, okay, who's that next amazing hire on defense? And you're just like, well, this guy seems really smart and good. Like, okay. And so. I am, I think, it's just built to last. There's no evidence, there's no clear evidence to me that steps are taken by going, again, backwards to a Clemson guy and Chad Morris. It's like, okay. I think they're happy being hopefully among the best in the ACC, not building like they want to win on a major level.

53:21 Ty Hildenbrandt: You just can't assume that Clemson is going to be a national title, even a conference contender. anymore. And I think that in and of itself has been a pretty drastic shift from where things were a decade ago. Just different now. And I don't think it's for lack of trying. Again, I push back on the narrative that Dabo is just sort of fat and happy and happy to coast with all the same stuff as before. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there actually has been a lot behind the scenes where he and there's been administrative turnover. There's been a lot that has changed, and I think he has been forced to adapt. But I think the mounting evidence is not that he can't adapt. It's just that he's not any good at it. And there's a difference, in my view.

54:08 Dan Rubenstein: Any other these that you want to rapid fire?

54:11 Ty Hildenbrandt: James Franklin, big game James Franklin.

54:15 Dan Rubenstein: Um, yeah, I think it's built to last.

54:20 Ty Hildenbrandt: I do. I think two things are true at once. Like Franklin's at a new place now. At Virginia Tech. I think we should give him a fresh start, a fresh eval, if you will.

54:30 Dan Rubenstein: I agree, but I'm not putting it to bed.

54:31 Ty Hildenbrandt: At Virginia Tech. And sometimes the change to scenery can go a long way. He's immediately made Virginia Tech better. Like, all these things are true, but he was still fired. For having a contending team and having the season bottom out on him the way it did at Penn State. I was looking at the schedule a little bit when I saw this one on the list. They've got rogue games at Clemson, SMU, and Miami.

54:57 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

54:57 Ty Hildenbrandt: And so, in a weird way, the schedule was kind of grown in a lab. To keep this narrative alive, you know, until proven otherwise, until James Franklin gets over the proverbial hump, I think this one is very much alive and well. My problem is, I don't know how he gets over that hump now at a new place. You know, like, does he have to win the ACC? Does he have to win a playoff game or two? Does he have to eventually win a title? Like, what is it for James Frank? Is it just winning games against ranked teams?

55:27 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, I think he will play he will play top-five Miamis, right? He will play those games. He will play top-five whoever in the ACC at some point. And top-10, top-12, something like that. How does he do against him after two, three years of building this roster how he'd like to? I mean, Virginia Tech expectations and program size is just different from Penn State. It's a different pressure calculation, but If he builds Virginia Tech into a team winning double-digit games, but those two losses are always Miami and ranked top-15 pit or something. Top 15 SMU, then you're like, all right, I guess it persists.

56:07 Ty Hildenbrandt: No.

56:08 Dan Rubenstein: I guess it keeps going.

56:09 Ty Hildenbrandt: The final one that I wanted to mention here on your list You don't want to be the guy after Saban. Do we put that to bed or is that built to last?

56:23 Dan Rubenstein: It seems built to last to me. I just think anybody there was set up to fail.

56:28 Ty Hildenbrandt: Is it still built to last even after Kalen DeBoer got a contract extension?

56:35 Dan Rubenstein: Ah

56:36 Ty Hildenbrandt: Because like you could argue that before the contract extension, this was built to last, but now they sign them to a big deal, big extension, and they are effectively putting it to bed.

56:44 Dan Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Well, they weren't going to fire him. I don't think I don't think they were going to fire him.

56:55 Ty Hildenbrandt: Well, the narrative was out there.

56:56 Dan Rubenstein: I don't think that anybody lined up.

56:57 Ty Hildenbrandt: The narrative was out there that he's not saving.

57:00 Dan Rubenstein: Well, nobody is.

57:01 Ty Hildenbrandt: Nobody is. Alabama definitely feels less automatic, which in and of itself is a it's crazy to say it, but that was a change, right?

57:05 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah, course Yeah.

57:10 Ty Hildenbrandt: So We understand that year one with Jalen Milroee didn't go great, lost the bowl game to Michigan, didn't make the playoff. Last year, Made it into the playoff, fell down early to Oklahoma, ended up winning that game. Then ended up getting throttled against Indiana, as everyone did. That's not necessarily a scarlet letter. But you you could very easily see how it just, by virtue of not being automatic, has been a little bit less palatable for a fan base that is used to unprecedented success under Nick Saban.

57:50 Dan Rubenstein: I also think part of what was a factor in Alabama's success, even in the NIL portal era, whatever, as briefly as Nick Saban was in it. I think top kids took a discount and invested themselves long term by going to Alabama. I think that's done. It seems to be done in that way. It seems like Alabama isn't, even with top-five recruiting classes, top-three recruiting classes, even if we are positive, which I think we are positive, Kalen DeBoer is at worst a really, really good coach. in a bad fit at worst. I don't think there's any way you can spin Kalen DeBoer, who just made the playoff with Alabama I don't think there's any way you can look at what he's done in his career and be like, oh, he's not that good, or he's average, or he's only okay. He's only pretty good. Like, he's a really, really good coach. I don't think anybody's being genuine if they're saying otherwise. But being set up to fail in this era. In this extended SEC, extended playoff, right? That Nick Saban had to win one game to win a national championship, and then two games. And now we're going into 12, 16, 24 teams, right? That the sport has helped Kalen DeBoer and the Alabama job be a job that is set up to fail just because it's harder to do it. And the expectations are there to keep doing it. And it's not Nick Saban there, right? Nick Saban had the opportunity to do it in his final season and lost to Michigan in the Rose Bowl and couldn't even make it to the national championship. Game. And he's still obviously rightfully considered to be an absolute icon of the sport. So I just think the guy was whoever it was, even if it were Dan Lanning or Sark or Kirby Smart or something like that. I think you're just set up to fail because there is only one Nick Saban at Alabama.

59:46 Ty Hildenbrandt: You can get the contract extension, and I still think this is built to last because no matter what you do, no matter how much money they pay you.

59:50 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

59:54 Ty Hildenbrandt: No matter how many wins you get, you're still going to be compared to Saban.

59:56 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah. But look, the good news is there's only one guy who comes after Nick Saban.

01:00:03 Ty Hildenbrandt: True.

01:00:03 Dan Rubenstein: Right?

01:00:04 Ty Hildenbrandt: True.

01:00:04 Dan Rubenstein: So whoever comes after Kalen DeBoer is not directly following Nick Saban.

01:00:09 Ty Hildenbrandt: No.

01:00:10 Dan Rubenstein: So it can only last for so long.

01:00:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: I tend to agree. All right, look. Solidverbal at gmail. com as always is the email address. Write in. Let us know your thoughts on you're putting any of these to bed. Built to last. You can always reach out on social media as well. The best way to get in touch is still email, but We check the socials from time to time. You know, we're in this game here for the long haul.

01:00:34 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

01:00:36 Ty Hildenbrandt: So write in however you see fit. We would encourage you to hit follow or subscribe if you made it this far and have yet to do so. The ratings and reviews very much do help. This is about that time of year, Dan, where we start to look like I look at our little graphs to see interest, and we start to see a little bit of an uptick. The line starts to bend a little bit up and to the right.

01:00:55 Dan Rubenstein: Yeah.

01:00:58 Ty Hildenbrandt: As we get through June, certainly into July and August, it'll be a lot steeper of a curve. But right about now.

01:01:06 Dan Rubenstein: Do you think it's because of people noticing that you are thriving in your Silver Fox era?

01:01:12 Ty Hildenbrandt: It could be. It very much could be.

01:01:13 Dan Rubenstein: I think that's what it is. I mean, look, who am I to speak? You can look, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see my graying temples as well. But I think it's a Ty factor where you seem more professorial.

01:01:21 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think it is, yeah. Yeah, I think that's what it is.

01:01:25 Dan Rubenstein: There is something to you. Yeah. It's probably what it is.

01:01:27 Ty Hildenbrandt: I think that's what it is. Anyway, pleasure to have you with us.

01:01:29 Dan Rubenstein: Okay.

01:01:31 Ty Hildenbrandt: As always, let us know where we're right, where we're wrong. Verballers.com is where you can go if you want to find all of the paid offerings and help support the team. And oh, by the way, as you are listening to this, go to solidverbal.com/newsletter. Sign up for the free newsletter that we send out weekly. We've been doing a great job. I shouldn't say we, I should say Tyler, our very gifted newsletter writer, has been doing an awesome job profiling coaches and teams and situations and has been getting some good attention for that.

01:01:50 Dan Rubenstein: Tyler, Tyler

01:01:59 Ty Hildenbrandt: So Go and support his work as well.

01:02:02 Dan Rubenstein: We only hire Tylers, is that correct? You are very specific about your hiring process.

01:02:08 Ty Hildenbrandt: We don't only hire Tylers, but there might be a little bit of a built-in preference. Yeah.

01:02:12 Dan Rubenstein: Top of the stack.

01:02:13 Ty Hildenbrandt: Yeah, that's right.

01:02:14 Dan Rubenstein: Okay.

01:02:14 Ty Hildenbrandt: That's right.

01:02:14 Dan Rubenstein: Good to know.

01:02:16 Ty Hildenbrandt: All right. Well, we will be back later on this week. Until next time, thank you, as always, for your ongoing support. Please again check out those links. Please again hit follow or subscribe if you've yet to do so and leave us the rating or review. For that guy over there, Dan, for myself over here, Ty. Until next time, stay solid.

01:02:36 Dan Rubenstein: Peace, Papa.